Dinosaur DECEPTION! Dinosaurs Never Existed! Dinosaur Fossils Are A Hoax - Dinosaurs: Science Or Science Fiction by David Wozney

Dinosaur DECEPTION!!

Dinosaurs Never Existed!

Dinosaur Fossils are a HOAX.

Dinosaur - "a bunch of shattered bones held together by a couple of tons of plaster sitting in a museum display."

Conspiracy theorist and former paleontology student Michael Forsell caused a storm yesterday when, during a Radio interview with leading paleontologist Jack Horner, he called in and blasted Horner for being a total fraud, fabricating evidence and perpetuating the myth of dinosaurs. He also paused for breath before calling Horner a "Rock Jockey" and then hanging up.

"I started my career in the field of paleontology, only to leave my studies once I realized the whole thing was a sham. It's nonsense, most of the so-called skeletons in museums are actually plaster casts. They even do it openly on documentaries now, preserving the bones my ass!

I struggled as a student, mainly because I could not tell the difference between a fossilized egg and an ordinary rock, and of course there is no difference. I was treated like a leper when I refused to buy into their propaganda, and promptly left the course.

Dinosaurs never existed, the whole shebang is a freak show, they just grab a couple of old bones and form them into their latest Frankenstein's monster like exhibit. If dinosaurs existed they would be mentioned in the Bible.

We are all being fooled and it's wrong, but together we can stop it."

Dinosaurs: Science Or Science Fiction
by David Wozney

Introduction

When children go to a dinosaur museum, are the displays they see displays of science or displays of art and science fiction? Are we being deceived and brainwashed at an early age into believing a dinosaur myth? Deep probing questions need to be asked of the entire dinosaur business.

This article will discuss the possibility that there may have been an ongoing effort since the earliest dinosaur "discoveries" to plant, mix and match bones of various animals, such as crocodiles, alligators, iguanas, giraffes, elephants, cattle, kangaroos, ostriches, emus, dolphins, whales, rhinoceroses, etc. to construct and create a new man-made concept prehistoric animal called the dinosaur.

Where bones from existing animals are not satisfactory for deception purposes, plaster substitutes may be manufactured and used. Some material similar or superior to plasticine clay or plaster of Paris would be suitable. Molds may also be employed. A 144-page book titled "Make Your Own Dinosaur Out of Chicken Bones" provides step-by-step instructions complete with detailed drawings and diagrams.

What would be the motivation for such a deceptive endeavor? Obvious motivations include trying to prove evolution, trying to disprove or cast doubt on the Christian Bible and the existence of the Christian God, and trying to disprove the “young-earth theory”. Yes, there are major political and religious ramifications.

The dinosaur concept implies that if God exists, He tinkered with His idea of dinosaurs for awhile, then probably discarded or became tired of this creation and then went on to create man. The presented dinosaur historical timeline suggests an imperfect God who came up with the idea of man as an afterthought, thus demoting the biblical idea that God created man in His own image. Dinosaurs are not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible.

Highly rewarding financial and economic benefits to museums, educational and research organizations, university departments of paleontology, discoverers and owners of dinosaur bones, and the book, television, movie and media industries may cause sufficient motivation for ridiculing of open questioning and for suppression of honest investigation.

Dinosaur Discoveries

Early Dinosaur Discoveries in North America provides revealing information about the first discoveries:

"The class Dinosauria was originally defined by Sir Richard Owen in 1842, in a two hour speech that reportedly held the audience captivated. The original dinosaurs of this new group were Megalosaurus, Iguanodon and Hylaeosaurus. However, each of these animals was known only from fragmentary specimens. It wasn't until the discoveries of dinosaurs in North America in the mid-19th century that people began to get a clearer picture of what dinosaurs looked like."

"It is generally accepted that the first discovery of dinosaur remains in North America was made in 1854 by Ferdinand Vandiveer Hayden during his exploration of the upper Missouri River."

"Near the confluence of the Judith and Missouri Rivers (shown above) Hayden's party recovered a small collection of isolated teeth which were later described by the Philadelphia paleontologist Joseph Leidy in 1856, in the Proceedings of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia."

So, dinosaurs were described in 1842 before the discoveries in 1854 that were required to give a clear picture of what dinosaurs looked like! Were discoveries made or constructed to fit the descriptions?

"Dinosaur skeletons were found for the first time in abundance in the Garden Park area of Colorado and at Como Bluff, Wyoming, in the late 1870s. These specimens initiated the First Great Dinosaur Rush in North America, driven largely by the efforts of a Philadelphia paleontologist, Edward Drinker Cope (on the left), and Othniel Marsh (on the right), a paleontologist from Yale University."

"These two men started as friends but became bitter rivals in a feud of legendary proportions. The stories surrounding these two include tales of armed field parties, spies, and intercepting shipments of fossils intended for the other." (Bold and italics are mine throughout this article.)

Why were fossils being shipped to the discoverers and from whom?

Wayne Grady explains in his book The Dinosaur Project: "From Cope, Sternberg had learned cutthroat bone hunting. Cope and his arch rival, Othniel Charles Marsh, professor of paleontology at Yale University, had been engaged in what have been called 'the bone wars' throughout the 1870s and 1880s. It was a fierce scientific rivalry that entailed some of the most underhanded shenanigans in the history of science, but it also amassed stupendous collections of fossils."

"The Second Great Dinosaur Rush took place in the badlands of the Red Deer River in southern Alberta. Dinosaur remains had been known from this region as early as 1884 but it wasn't until 1910 that this region became an active collecting area. It was here that the second great collecting rivalry took place between Barnum Brown of the American Museum of Natural History in New York and C. H. Sternberg of the Geological Survey of Canada."

Why were there no discoveries by native Americans in all the years previous when they roamed the American continents? There is no belief of dinosaurs in the native American religion or tradition.

For that matter, why were there no discoveries prior to the nineteenth century in any part of the world? According to the World Book Encyclopedia, "before the 1800's, no one ever knew that dinosaurs ever existed". "During the late 1800's and early 1900's, large deposits of dinosaur remains were discovered in western North America, Europe, Asia, and Africa." "Dinosaur deposits also lie in Belgium, Mongolia, Tanzania, West Germany, and many other parts of the world."

Why has man suddenly made all these discoveries? Belgium, Mongolia, Tanzania, West Germany (and the Americas as well) were inhabited and very well explored for thousands of years and there were no discoveries until the nineteenth century. Why?

At Dinosauria : Fossil Record we learn that "The late 1800s were the 'golden age' of dinosaur paleontology, when many animals that you might be familiar with were discovered and named. Today we seem to be in another 'dinosaur renaissance', with new information accumulating rapidly".

At The Meaning of the Hadrosaurus Find: Proof That Dinosaurs Were Real we learn that people were allegedly becoming enlightened by the new discoveries. The impression that I receive is that people were possibly being deceived and that the discoveries were possibly "being made" as a reaction and rebellion against God and the Bible.

"The First Real Proof of Dinosaur Existence"

"Eight years after this reference book was published the first comprehensive skeletal form of a real dinosaur--Hadrosaurus foulkii --was unearthed in Haddonfield, New Jersey. Taller than a house, it had the pelvic structure of a bird, the tail of a lizard and, incredibly, it walked upright on two legs, foraging with arm-like forelimbs."

Were the bones of a bird and lizard and other animals used in the discovery?

Discoverers And Nature Of Discoveries

Discoveries and excavations seem not to be made by disinterested people, such as farmers, ranchers, hikers, outdoor recreationists, building construction industry basement excavators, pipeline trench diggers, and mining industry personnel but rather by people with vested interests, such as paleontologists, scientists, university professors, and museum organization personnel who were intentionally looking for dinosaur bones or who have studied dinosaurs previously. The finds are often made during special dinosaur-bone hunting trips and expeditions by these people to far-away regions already inhabited and explored. This seems highly implausible. More believable is the case of the discovery of the first original Dead Sea scrolls in 1947, which were unintentionally discovered by a child, and which were all published by 1955. In some cases of a discovery of dinosaur bones by a disinterested person, it was suggested to them by some "professional" in the field to look or dig in a certain area. Also very interesting to note are special areas set aside and designated as dinosaur parks for which amateur dinosaur hunters are required to first obtain a dinosaur hunting license.

Take a look at Dilophosaurus Discovered and the discovery of Haddonfield's Dinosaur for some idea as to how this may have occurred.

Also, a multitude of bones and dinosaurs are strangely found in the same place, suggesting possible planting of bones. The following three paragraphs are from The Seizure of Sue the T. rex.

"The Larsons are still working this find, which they called the Ruth Mason Quarry. The find contained the remains of at least two thousand beasts. There is only speculation as to the reason so many bones were in one place. The river system could have transported the bones a few at a time to a sandy coast at the edge of a receding Cretaceous sea. Or a great storm could have trapped and drowned a herd on a spit of land. A preponderance of the fossils were of Emontosaurus annectens a duckbilled dinosaur which migrated in flocks. Various carnivores teeth, including that of T. rex, were also found at the site, which could simply mean that these beasts were scavenging the remains. 'We're only guessing', said Pete."

"In July, 1990, Maurice Williams, who had a ranch nearby, came by the quarry. He was fascinated by work, and offered to let the paleontologists search for fossils on his land. Pete told him he appreciated the offer and would do so at the earliest opportunity. On the morning of August 12, the team suffered a flat tire. Their spare was low and the pump was broken. Most of the crew decided to take the tires to Faith in another vehicle for repair. Susan Hendrickson, a Seattle archaeologist and amateur paleontologist who was working with BHIGR that summer, decided to take a hike through Williams' land instead."

"She returned to the quarry several hours later finding the team back at work with three pieces of vertebrae. Pete thought immediately, Tyrannosaurus. The team saddled up and drove to the site she'd discovered, a 60-foot sandstone cliff jutting out of the prairie. At about eye level, a huge femur (thigh bone) protruded, along with several other bones. Pete immediately sought out Williams, who said, I've ridden by that place a hunnerd times. Never saw a thing."

It is unusually coincidental that a "commercial fossil collecting firm" would be the organization to make the dinosaur find. Why was rancher Williams unable to find "Sue" after all his years of ranching? Don't you find this unusual? The article T-Rex bones on sale for a cool $12 million indicates that the business of being a "commercial fossil collecting firm" is potentially very lucrative!

People who work for museums often seem to be the ones associated with the really prolific finds:

A discovery in a remote area of Argentina is described: "In November 1997, Dr. Luis Chiappe and Dr. Lowell Dingus went to Patagonia with an expedition team and discovered a nesting site that contained thousands of dinosaur eggs, including fossilized embryos and fossilized skin. ... The concentration of eggs was so intense and rich that, in an area of roughly 100 yards by 200 yards, we counted about 195 clusters of eggs."

Comptons Encyclopedia lists some prominent paleontologists and their prolific discoveries:

"Ameghino, Florentino (1854-1911). Argentinian paleontologist who described 6,000 fossil species excavated by his brother, Carlos, in Argentina, thereby establishing Argentina's reputation as a fossil-rich area. Briefly head of paleontology at La Plata Museum, where much of his collection is displayed. ....
Douglass, Earl (1862-1931). United States dinosaur hunter who, in Utah in 1909, found the fossil-rich beds now forming Dinosaur National Monument. Over his entire career, sent 350 tons of excavated dinosaur bones to the Carnegie Museum of Natural History, Pittsburgh."

Finds of huge quantities of fossils in one area, or by one or few people, goes against the laws of natural probability and suggests a possible concentrated planting effort.

The number of dinosaur fossils extracted from the Cleveland-Lloyd Dinosaur Quarry are listed in detail:

"More than 30 complete skeletons, 12,000 individual bones and several dinosaur eggs have come from this prolific fossil bed." ... "Over the years, bones have been taken from the quarry representing at least 70 different animals and 14 species. Cast and original skeletons assembled from these bones are on display in over 60 museums world-wide..."

"About 147 million years ago this area was a shallow freshwater lake with a muddy bottom. Plant-eating dinosaurs and the meat-eaters who preyed upon them occasionally became trapped in the mud. As the years passed, the skeletons of these animals accumulated until the site became a complex mix of bones."

"After the lake bottom dried up it was covered with volcanic ash; and rivers and shallow seas deposited thick layers of sand and mud on top. Meanwhile, the bones fossilized. Millions of years later water and wind eroded the layers to produce the topography seen today. The bones are now close enough to the surface to be recovered by scientific excavations."

This story hard to believe that so many clumsy dinosaurs became stuck in mud and that circumstances are just so that all these bones are now on or near the surface of the earth. Why do we have so many dinosaur fossils but not fossils of other animals, such as the bison that roamed North America?

Dinosaur Display Preparation

Let's take a look at a description of how dinosaur bones are transported and prepared at Fossil Excavation, A Fossil's Trail - From Excavation to Exhibit .

"We ... now commonly use strips of burlap soaked in plaster to jacket over our finds. After applying a tissue separator to keep the plaster from direct contact with the surface of the bone, the soaked burlap strips are laid onto our pedestaled fossil until they cover it in a half shell. ... The end result is a bone totally encased in a protective mummy-like fieldjacket and ready for safe transport."

So preparers and transporters work with plaster all the time! Plaster lying around therefore does not draw questions or suspicion.

"Through moldmaking and casting we can totally fabricate limbs, ribs, vertebrae, etc. for the missing pieces of an articulated skeletal mount. Plaster, fiberglass and epoxies are often and commonly used. In reconstruction work on single bones, small to large cracks can be filled in with mache or plaster mixed with dextrin, a starch that imparts an adhesive quality and extra hardness to regular molding plaster. We've also had success using epoxy putties. Large missing fragments can be sculpted directly in place with these same materials."

"Even fossils that are difficult, nigh near impossible to collect in the field, are harder still to prepare in the lab. Specimens that take from a day to a week to remove from their beds of stone can require months or even years to clean, consolidate, repair and reconstruct for study or display. This is an art and skill of the preparator (a term that appears to have first been used in North America)."

What exactly is taking months or years? Is the public being given altered versions of bones? What exactly is going on? Is this science or art and science fiction? Is the public being deceived?

At The Changing Shape of Hadrosaurus foulkii we learn of an iguana skull being substituted for the skull of a dinosaur on display. Was the public told at the time? What are we not being told today?

"The original reconstruction of Hadrosaurus foulkii featured a creature in a kangaroo stance--an animal that used its tail as a third leg. At the same time, while the excavated fossil was nearly complete, it lacked a skull. Because parts of its skeleton resembled those of an iguana, the skull of a modern iguana was used as a model for the skull created for the original display in 1868. That sculpted skull (above, right) is currently on display at the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia as a historical curiosity."

From elementary school curriculum, we learn that, in elementary schools, they're teaching students how to make their own fossils and what paleontologists do. Do paleontologists make their own fossils too?

Known Bone Sculpture & Bone Carving Activities

The possibility exists that key dinosaur bones on display have been artificially modified through sculpture and carving. Bone sculpture is not an unknown human activity. Many cultures participate in creating man-made objects out of existing bones, totally unrecognizable from the original shape. Is the dinosaur industry a customer of this sort of business?

Is it possible that dinosaur skeleton replica are secretly assembled or manufactured in private buildings out of public view, with bones artificially constructed or used from a number of different modern-day animals? Why bother having any authentic original fossils at all if alleged replicas can please the public?

Credibility Of Dinosaur Displays And Artistic Impressions

Many displays and drawings of dinosaurs appear to be an absurdity, showing a two-legged animal that would be totally off-balance, with the weight of head and abdomen much greater than weight of tail, which is supposed to act as a counter-balance.

Is the dinosaur industry a case of science trying to meet public desires or expectations? The movie Jurassic Park is an example of showing dinosaurs much larger than any current displays in museums. After the movie came out, it is interesting to note that many articles were written asking "Is this possible?". I recall a report of dinosaur DNA being discovered preserved in amber, which later turned out to be false.

At a description of Mill Canyon Dinosaur Trail we learn of dinosaur tracks being given credibility. Do you not find it rather difficult to believe that erosion and weathering would not destroy prints that are allegedly millions of years old?

Archaeopteryx, the ever-popular transitional form, is no real fossil evidence for evolution. "But, Sir Fred Hoyle, the prominent British scientist, in his book Archaeopteryx the Primordial Bird, "a case of fossil forgery," says that someone took a small fossil, put cement on it, and pressed a modern feather into the cement to create a forgery. The person then sold it to the British Museum for 36,000 gold marks, a hefty sum in 1861."

Radiometric Dating

The original living material, and the material that is used to produce its fossil, are often two different things, and thus the ages of both are different as well. Most alleged ancient fossils are found near the surface of earth, and are dated by the age of the rocks near where they are found. If a modern-day animal was to die and its remains found in the same location, would it be dated the same age of the alleged ancient fossil?

According to Margaret J. Helder, Ph.D., in her book Completing The Picture, A Handbook On Museums And Interpretive Centres Dealing With Fossils, "Scientists used to be very impressed with the potential of radiometric for coming up with absolutely reliable ages of some kinds of rocks. They do not feel that way anymore. Having had to deal with numerous calculated dates which are too young or too old compared with what they expected, scientists now admit that the process has many more uncertainties than they ever would have supposed in the early years. The public knows almost nothing about uncertainties in the dating of rocks. The impression that most people have received is that many rocks on earth are extremely old and that the technology exists to make accurate measurements of these ages. Scientists have become more and more aware however that the measurements which the machines make, may tell us nothing about the actual age of the rock."

Fossilization

Margaret J. Helder continues to explain: "Under what circumstances did whole organisms remain intact long enough to be fossilized? In most cases it seems, these victims were rapidly buried in great loads of sediment, which quickly hardened into rock. Not only did these situations require catastrophic burial but also the sediment involved had to be very fine grained in order for such exquisite preservation of detail to come about. Geologists generally interpret silt beds as the result of fine particles settling gradually out of still water. If that had happened in these instances, the corpses would have decayed long before burial and lithification (turning to rock) could occur."

The replacement process is supposed to involve calcium in skeletal material being replaced, atom by atom, by silica, calcite, pyrite, dolomite, etc., over a long period of time. This goes against the natural law of increasing disorder, entropy. How are all these dead atoms intelligent enough to know what to do and where to go to produce the finished fossil?

Another alleged mode of preservation is permineralization, whereby porous bone structures are supposed to become more dense by the deposition of mineral matter by groundwater. The more porous the bone, the more susceptible it is to destruction. In Speed and Conditions of Fossilization, we learn that "secondary mineralization, remineralization, leaching of bone mineral, and biologically-induced mineralization begin very rapidly after the bone is exposed to the environment. If the bone is not buried or underwater within 1-2 years of defleshing, it will literally become dust in the wind. The bone fragments may persist for several more years, but they are unrecognizable as to species." After a so-called dinosaur dies, I would conservatively estimate the chances of its bones becoming buried or underwater within 1 to 2 years of defleshing at much less than one in a thousand. "Hypersaline environments in which carbonates are precipitating favor bone remineralization and secondary mineralization. Saline environments also are good, but there the processes are slower." Are not dinosaurs supposed to have lived in a relatively non-saline fresh water environment? Inducing mineralization under ideal laboratory conditions is one matter, but completely different than real-world natural processes that tend to dissolve, not precipitate, bone mineral. Once the internal part of a decaying bone fills up with saline water from a sea, I am unaware of any reason why it should be a preferred location for mineral precipitation compared to the rest of the sea bottom.

Fossilization is also discusssed at Evolution versus Creation, where we learn that "... there are no fossils being formed today on a large scale like they did many years ago ... when a fish dies, it doesn't sink to the bottom of the ocean and become a fossil, it merely decays and is eaten by other fish or animals. Even today, there is hardly a trace of the millions of buffalo that once existed, but were slaughtered all over the plains just a couple of generations ago. (Some herds were big enough to cover a whole state)."

Size and Lifestyle Paradox

Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth discusses the paradox between the dinosaurs' size and lifestyle.

"The dinosaurs' large size has presented palaeontologists with an interesting paradox. Calculations of the structural dynamic stresses within the bones of the largest dinosaurs indicate that they were too large to move fast without injuring themselves. Contrary to this view is the fact that detailed bio-mechanical reconstructions indicate that they were agile, active creatures."

"Depending on the arguments used, a particular dinosaur can be reconstructed in two ways, slow and lumbering, or fast and agile, with both sides of the argument appearing equally valid."

Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth also discusses the structural dynamics of dinosaurs.

"One method of finding out more about Dinosaurs is to study their structural dynamics. This method considers the loads and forces acting on the structure of their skeleton as they moved. The Dinosaurs' structural dynamics indicates that the loads acting on their skeletons where much greater than that of present day animals. In some causes, because of the Dinosaurs' large size, calculations indicate that the bones of the largest Dinosaurs were likely to buckle and crack under their own immense weight. These calculations were responsible for promoting the idea that the Dinosaurs must have moved very slowly to prevent sudden shocks to their skeleton."

"This idea of slow moving animals does not agree with the bio-mechanical analysis of dinosaurs, which indicate that the Dinosaurs where agile, active creatures. This is the paradox between the Dinosaurs size and lifestyle."

Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth also analyzes the bio-mechanical aspects of dinosaurs.

"One method of discovering more about Dinosaurs is to perform a bio-mechanical analysis. This method considers how the Dinosaurs must have moved and acted in order to survive. It relies on comparing the structures of today's living animals with those of the Dinosaurs in order to establish how Dinosaurs moved and acted. This method indicates that the Dinosaurs must have been agile, active creatures."

"The idea of active animals does not agree with the study of the structural dynamics of the Dinosaurs, which indicates that if the Dinosaurs moved as fast as present day creatures they would injure themselves. This is the paradox between the Dinosaurs size and lifestyle."

There is a simpler solution to these paradoxes other than having to reduce earth's gravity!

Job 40:17

Some people point to Job 40:17 as evidence that dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible. They state that only dinosaurs could fit the description of having a "tail like a cedar".

He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
(Job 40:17, KJV)

However, Bible translations other than the King James version clearly reveal that alternative understandings are possible for what this verse is actually stating.

He doth bend his tail as a cedar, The sinews of his thighs are wrapped together,
(Job 40:17, YLT)

Job 40:17 could be stating that the behemoth bends his tail with the same ease and speed that he bends a cedar tree, such as would be required in clearing land. Indeed, this is consistent with his strength and force (Job 40:16) and suggests his usefulness as being a beast of burden for man. God made the behemoth with man (Job 40:15).

His tail [1] sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.
(Job 40:17, NIV)

He makes his tail stiff like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together.
(Job 40:17, RSV)

Alternatively, Job 40:17 could be stating that the tail of a behemoth sways in the same manner that a cedar tree sways, or that the behemoth makes his tail as stiff as a cedar tree.

The behemoth could very well be the elephant. The elephant is a beast of burden for man in that it is used to move tree logs, such as cedar logs, with its trunk and tusks (Job 40:17). The elephant can move these logs around like it moves its tail. In India and some other Asian countries, elephants are used in the logging industry. An elephant can move a log that weighs 600 pounds. It lifts smaller logs with its tusks and holds them with its trunk. An elephant can knock down a tree 30 feet high that has a diameter of two feet. Elephants eat grass, shrubs, leaves, roots, bark, and branches. Wild elephants drink up to 40 gallons of water daily. The Matthew Henry Commentary on Job 40 concurs with the idea of the behemoth being the elephant.

Since other logical explanations are available for what the behemoth is, other than the "dinosaur", there is no requirement for Christians to consider the behemoth of Job 40 to be the dinosaur or to even believe in dinosaurs.

Abiogenic Origin of Petroleum

Petroleum is often referred to as "fossil energy", however, Thomas Gold has claimed that hydrocarbons are found in many locations where a biogenic origin is improbable or impossible, such as in the earth at great depths below any biological debris, and on asteroids, comets, the planets Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, and their various moons such as Titan and Triton. Meteorites have been found containing coal and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). PAHs are found in coal and petroleum. Numerous other arguments against a biological origin for petroleum exist, such as the claim that hydrogen-saturated hydrocarbons are unlikely to have been derived from any biological debris. A theory exists that petroleum is not a "fossil fuel" with a surface origin. Therefore, one can conclude that the alleged past existence of dinosaurs (or the alleged past existence of any other ancient living material) is not necessary to explain the origin of petroleum.

Motivation

"Dinosaur" bones sell for a lot of money at auctions. It is a profitable business. There is pressure for academics to publish papers. Museums are in the business of producing displays that are popular and appealing. Movie producers and the media need to produce material to sell to stay in business. The mainstream media loves to hype alleged dinosaurs finds. Much is to be gained by converting a bland non-dinosaur discovery, of a bone of modern origin, into an impressive dinosaur find, and letting artists' interpretations and imaginations take the spotlight, rather than the basic boring real find. There are people who desire and crave prestige, fame and attention. There is the bandwagon effect and crowd behaviour. And then there are people and entities pursuing political and religious agendas.

During the nineteenth century a new world view of evolution was being pursued by then influential people such as Darwin and Marx. During this era of thought the first dinosaur discoveries were made. Were these discoveries "made" to try to make up for inadequacies in the fossil record for the theory of evolution?

A History Of Evolutionary Thought lists some of the influential people setting the stage for the evolution way of thinking:

"Preludes to Evolution

Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744-1829)
Thomas Malthus (1766-1834)
Georges Cuvier (1769-1832)
William Smith (1769-1839)
Étienne Geoffroy St. Hilaire (1772-1844)
Adam Sedgwick (1785-1873)
Patrick Matthew (1790-1874)
Mary Anning (1799-1847)
Sir Richard Owen (1804-1892)
Louis Agassiz (1807-1873)

Natural Selection

Alfred Russel Wallace (1823-1913)
Thomas Henry Huxley (1824-1895)
Ernst Haeckel (1834-1919)
Edward Drinker Cope (1840-1897)
Henry Fairfield Osborn (1857-1935)"

The pro-evolutionary bias is evident with this organization promoting dinosaur discoveries.

The majority of governments in the world today operate on some basis of government that uses a political philosophy other than that found in Romans 13:1, Colossians 1:16-17 and 1 Timothy 1:17. As one example, the "...government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion...", according to Article 11 of the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and passed by the United States Congress. Article VI, Clause 2 of the U.S.A. Constitution states: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land...".

State funding of organizations that promote the dinosaur concept could be considered strategic psychological warfare against a state that uses a Christian doctrinal basis for government since the Christian Bible comes complete with the account of God’s creation in the book of Genesis and the genealogy of Jesus.

As mentioned earlier, motivations for the possible invention of the dinosaur include trying to prove evolution, trying to disprove or cast doubt on the Bible and the existence of God, and trying to disprove the “young-earth theory”. Of course, a goal of Satan is to cast doubt on the credibility of the Christian Bible.

The name of Devils Canyon Science and Learning Center may possibly provide good insight to the real source of the dinosaur concept.

Summary

The following issues raise red flags as to the integrity of the dinosaur industry and cast doubts as to whether dinosaurs ever existed:

(1) dinosaur discoveries having occurred only within the last two centuries and in huge unusual concentrated quantities going against the laws of nature and probability;

(2) dinosaur discoverers typically and generally not being disinterested parties without a vested interest;

(3) the nature of public display preparation, calling into question the integrity and source of fossils, and allowing for the possibility of tampering and bone substitution, and the possibility of fraudulent activities on a systemic basis;

(4) existing artistic drawings and public exhibits showing off-balance and awkward postures that basic physics would rule out as being possible;

(5} very low odds of all these dinosaur bones being fossilized but relatively few bones of other animals;

(6) implications of dinosaur discoveries to the theory of evolution and the belief that man was created in God's image, suggesting possible hidden and subtle political or religious agendas served on a naive and unsuspecting public; and,

(7) a lack of funding for organizations and people questioning or being skeptical of each and every discovery and public display.

Conclusion

The possibility exists that living dinosaurs never existed. "Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth” (Mark 9:23).

The dinosaur industry should be investigated and questions need to be asked. I am unaware of any evidence or reason for absolutely believing dinosaurs ever were alive on earth. The possibility exists that the concept of prehistoric living dinosaurs has been a fabrication of nineteenth and twentieth century people possibly pursuing an evolutionary and anti-Bible and anti-Christian agenda.

The past existence of living dinosaurs has not yet been proven. Questioning what is being told instead is a better choice rather than blindly believing the dinosaur story. Issues should be carefully considered for the sake of good science. "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called” (1 Timothy 6:20).

The choice between believing the word of man, the evolutionists, or the word of God, the Bible, is a matter of faith.

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Link to this posting: http://sites.google.com/site/dinosaurdeception

Website by Bernard Brauer:

See also:

Dinosaurs: Science Or Science Fiction by David Wozney - Dinosaur DECEPTION! Dinosaurs Never Existed! Dinosaur Fossils Are A Hoax: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/7249

Dinosaurs - Are They Still Amongst Us? Evidence Says They Are: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3457

Archaeology Answers About Ancient Civilizations: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3081

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As a Geologist, I find the theories you are using to disprove the existence of dinosaurs laughable. Doing research on current aquatic genra and how they are fossilized so a 100% link to the fossilized animals we find in the Earth. To place yourself in a different type of planet, one with a much higher percentage of O2 in the atmosphere is what caused the animals to grow larger as well as staging for growth in a particular species. All of these actions are done by all of the animals on the planet today, including Homo Sapiens Sapiens (modern human subspecies, and yes it's said twice to indicate the exact subspecies). Discoveries like the KT Boundary and the Chicxulub Crater are even more proof of past events. Everything we have today is due to understanding the present to learn from the past, a motto of geology, and it's hurtful to me to hear so many people block out what is staring them in the face and try to assume something spectacular has happened. Most of the time in life, the simplest answer is the correct answer. This Universe is built on the laws of Mathematics and Science, whether you accept that or not.

Mathematics and science are

Mathematics and science are built off the laws of man alone. Without mathematics and science, life would go on just as perfectly as it did before these man made images where believed by you, and many other coxed believers the like.
Nature and life do not exist in books and words, and words in books will never help you understand life and nature.
If history does show anything, it is that we don't learn from the past and are ignorant towards it through dogma and belief. Why should geology be any different. Everything you have exists subjectively in your mind. You cannot own any part of life, your attempts to own by dissecting and creating death are useless to understand life are useless.

Your first statement

Your first statement "Mathematics and science are built off the laws of man alone" This is patently incorrect. Mathematics are the predicable constants of the known universe not man , and science is a layering of ideas built on the provable previous work.

Regarding mathamatics, it was NASA scientists used it and science/technology to place the Mars Curiosity rover within 1.5 miles of it's intended target. It travelled 350, 000,000 miles to get there, almost 4x's the distance to the sun. They used mathematics based on the physics of the known universe to accomplish this . Science has allowed you to post this message, use a GPS, talk on the phone, save a loved one from an illness of injury. Without mankind's knowledge of science it would not be accessible to use, it would of course exist, but it would not be within our grasp without man's understanding of science.

Very large lizards existed on our planet. Science has proved that. Maybe not to you because you have not honestly looked at the evidence, instead you look only at things that might disprove their existence, there is a difference.

Your first statement

Arthur, if you or a a family member are in need a heart bypass, you probably would not look to a plumber to do the job. You would have a trained cardiologist, who has been taught the best procedure for the best outcome, to do the operation. A wise person would trust the knowledge behind the cardiologist over the plumber's skill. Science and mathematics, built over years, has lead to the cardiologist's knowledge. This same science and math which we trust in our Doctor's care is the same as the science that has proved that large lizards existed a long time ago. Granted you would never find that evidence of that if you never looked, but that does not mean it does not exist.

My point is, we cannot be honest with ourselves when we enjoy and use the benefits that result from science in everyday life but when this same science contradicts with our world view, we cannot just then be suspicious science in that area. Are you suspicious of science when you cook each meal? John Calvin could not accept the Earth was not in the centre of the solar system. Calvin had genuine faith in a geocentric solar system. The reality of a non-geocentric solar system, did not take away from Calvin's real and genuine faith, but it should be noted his faith did not make the sun and the earth change places.

Your first statement

Quite a system you have there. When reality disagrees with your view, you say reality is just an “idea”and does not really exist anyways and therefore does not apply. Brilliant, that way you can be right all the time, since you can make up stuff as you go. This way you insulate yourself from real reasoned debate and just make the appearance of a reasoned debate By demoting science and math, which have been constant, reliable and useful for most of our recorded history to mere “ideas”, you try to put them on par with your ideas which are not testable. For example prove that eating raw meat will improve your health and result in people not needing a by-pass operation.

Your non-reality system has similarities to one who is on hallucinatory drugs. To them what they experience is very real. To those outside that person, reality is something else, something tangible. For example because the affected person thinks they can fly off a skyscraper and live does not mean they can ( that is the effects of the mind altering drugs) . They may think they can fly, but you and I know the results of gravity and acceleration will crush their body.

Without an agreed upon datum, or reference, no real debate about science and math can exist. In fact you cannot credibly participate in a debate about these subjects. Image a person could say that 12+12 does NOT equal 24 but rather on Tuesday afternoons at 12:04 GMT it equals 23, so he can say to his customer I did deliver 2 packages of 12 melons, go and count them I am sure I put 23 melons in the shipment.

Something else is going on when we cannot agree 12+ 12 is 24.

Your first statement

You said:
"Belief is not proof of fact - reality is not based on belief which is almost all you are offering up in this thread Fred"

"Reality basis on belief" is not what I am offering. I do not believe 12+12 is 24, I know it, you know. It is a reality, it always has and always will be.

Dictionary definition of belief:
“A feeling of being sure that someone or something exists or that something is true.”

My proof of 12+12=24 is not a "feeling"

Re: Your First Statement (3)

Hi Fred, numerics do not exist, numerics are just intellectual property which you have been taught to re-present. 12 does not exist, 12 + 12 = 24 does not exist either. Numerics are not sensory life-forms. Numerics are not present with the presence of life. We can't sense (touch taste, feel, smell, hear, see) numerics (intellectual property). This is why sensory-living-life-forms (MAN) who are present with the presence of life (we can sense MAN) has to RE-PRESENT numerics. MANS senses/presence of life is used to act/perform on behalf of a fiction that has no SENSES/presence of life. In present-sense we can always sense MAN but we can never sense number one, two, three, etc. This is the basis of fantasy, illusion and delusion = belief, faith and associated opinion.

Find a lie in what we are saying here Fred because if you can't, then it's clear that all you have is belief, faith and associated opinion. Bring forward numerics/1, 2, 3, a, b, c, compass, square, as sensory-living first parties to back your REALITY claims which in fact your claim of reality is really a story-telling fantasy. And, we don't want an actor (MAN) acting as an impostor (re-presentative) of numerics to come forward as this is the basis of fraud and lies.

Also, a little boy said to his parents, mum is one, dad is two and you both created me so I am three - he said 1 + 1 = 3. Is the little boy lying Fred?

A tree is a tree, a tree is not number one. No matter how brilliant and clever it is to give the impression that superimposing "intellectual property" (numerics) over a tree does not make number one true. Belief in a God does not provide the incontrovertible evidence that a God exists. Belief in numerics (12 + 12 = 24) does not prove that numerics exist. So yes, your assumed proof of 12 + 12 = 24 is an e-motion (feeling) that actually is a reaction to trauma (non-sense/senseless imagination/image bouncing to a fro between your ears so to speak = apparition, phantom, ghost). Again, this is explained in great detail in the Arthur & Fiona Cristian Love For Life articles, posts, videos, etc.

All the best
Arthur & Fiona Cristian

Your First Statement

Arthur, if your internet cost you 35.00 per month, which consisted of 30.00 for the connection a 5 for extra web space, and the ISP said you owned him 45 since 30 + 5 is 45. You would complain that he added wrong, but using your system he could just say math is just a fantasy, illusion and delusion and you own me 45.00 please pay up now. From my perspective you have no foundational logic to disagree with him.

You have not refuted the augment that science/mathematics are real,tangible and used everyday my you and me, but rather you just said science/math are not real and only a belief and that I just have think differently. That is classic straw-man argument, where one introduces a separate argument not related to the first in an attempt to disprove the first. For example, person A says I am 5' 10", but person B says definitely not, but rather 4' 10", Person B says they know this because their cousin says he is 5' 10 and he is much taller than you. Person B changes the argument away from whether Person A is 5' 10” to whether his cousin is 5' 10”. The correct thing for Person B would be for them to measure Person A with a standard ruler which has a scale that is agreed by both parties.

Like I said in an earlier note that there is more going on than arguing whether 12+12 = 24.

I think your life skills are in other places than science and math. There is nothing wrong with that, but you should not containerize everything you do not understand into "the system" which is then scapegoated as the origin of everything which is bad.

By the way who gets to decide what is in "the system" and what is not?

Re: Your First Statement (3)

"By the way who gets to decide what is in "the system" and what is not?"
The people who perform the brainwashing upon the innocent not provided with full-disclosure.

Fred, even with millions of brainwashed (educated slaves) men and women all believing in and performing the same "intellectual property" like "commerce", "mathematics", "numerics", etc, still does not make it true/real.

Where can millions of innocent children not exposed to "The System" or to anyone exposed to the education of "The System, go anywhere in/across nature/earth to learn about "numerics", "mathematics", "system science", "commerce", "English", etc, without anyone having to explain it to them?

All you are doing is re-presenting the "intellectual property" (fiction) others have pounded (excessive repetition) into you.

Superimposing "intellectual property" (NON-SENSE) over sensory life-forms does not make "intellectual property" real/true. Only sensory-life-forms (nature/earth/MAN) is real/true. "intellectual property" is dead/invisible, it can't walk, talk, think, feel, poo, wee, negotiate, contract, contemplate, co-create (has ancestors, descendants, family, children) and be fully-responsible to set it's images into motion of its own doing.

Fred, did someone, a MAN, invent 1,2,3, a, b, c, numerics, commerce, mathematics?????

Without education/instruction/exposure/brainwashing, "intellectual property" would not seem (appear) to exist. "Intellectual property" is an apparition, a thought-form (set into motion by MAN) without the embodiment of sensory-life. ONLY sensory-life-forms, inanimate or not, are REAL/TRUE. You can't touch, taste, feel, smell, hear, see, "intellectual property". It was sensory life-forms that invented/imagined-out-of-thin-air "intellectual property". "Intellectual Property" did not invent/create
MAN/Sensory-Life-Forms.

How can "intellectual property" be real/true when it does not exist - is a fantasy???

Our articles, videos, debates, discussions, podcasts, etc, go into this subject in great detail.

All the best to you and your family Fred.

Your First Statement

"Fred, did someone, a MAN, invent 1,2,3, a, b, c, numerics, commerce, mathematics????? "

With all your exclamation marks, you appeared to be puzzled how I cannot see this. First of all we need to agree on a term, invent.

Dictionary definition:
Create or design (something that has not existed before); be the originator of. "he invented an improved form of the steam engine"
Source: https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ujV2Uv2aGYTJygHvpYH4BA#q=definition+...

The formula for an hypotenuse of a right angle triangle is a2 + b2 = c2, this is a relationship that existed before the advent of this formula. The formula is man's representation of the relationship. Math is language that represents the patterning of our world. For you say this language is flawed, but you need to show where it does not work.

Arthur, to disprove my ideas, you are not disproving them, but rather saying there is whole other thing going on involving millions of brainwashed people and that I cannot see what you are saying because I am brainwashed. If this was true, surely you could argue your point from within the realms of science and math. It is a natural place to discuss things, since we both do use them, in that we drive our cars within the speed limits ( we trust our speedometers) We charge our customers the right amount of sales tax. Since you say it is now real, you should be able provide some evidence. I have yet to see any logical argument, unless you do not think logical is real either.

Your example:

"Also, a little boy said to his parents, mum is one, dad is two and you both created me so I am three - he said 1 + 1 = 3. Is the little boy lying Fred?"

I am sure the boy is nice and well intentioned boy, but has an undeveloped idea of math and logic. The boy cannot logically arrive at an answer of 3 people while at the same time refuse to include the himself in the calculation when he does in fact exist when the calculation is made.

Your example above is the only evidence you have that is saying math is not reliable/ unreal/ a belief, albeit using flawed logic.

Here is logic trick I learned when I was a boy. I think you will find it amusing:

3 men go into a hotel. The man behind the desk says a room is $30 so each man pays $10 and goes to the room.

A while later the man behind the desk realized the room was only $25 so he sent the bellboy to the 3 guys room with $5. On the way the bellboy couldn't figure out how to split $5 evenly between 3 men, so he gave each man a $1 and kept the other $2 for himself.

This meant that the 3 men each paid $9 for the room, which is a total of $27 add the $2 that the bellboy kept = $29. Where is the other dollar?

Have a great day Arthur, and I hope you enjoy my logic puzzle. My kids got a kick out it.

Your First Statement (4)

Hi Fred, you can get 100 people to learn the lines of 100 individual characters who, together with stage and props, can put on a performance of Harry Potter. Busy in the story-telling all involved are bound to the performance, allowing the audience to experience the fantasy of Harry Potter being set into motion by men, women and children (actors) in character. Before, during and after the performance, at no "time" does the story of Harry Potter exist - only the temporary performance gives the impression that the illusion of Harry Potter exists.

The same applies with commerce, mathematics, geometry, etc. All involved in the performance of "commerce" (as you are clearly demonstrating in this thread Fred) had to learn the lines of commerce (education) so they can collectively set into motion the temporary illusion of "commerce" ("intellectual property"). The illusion of commerce ("The System") seems to only exist for as long as there are trained/educated performers in costume and title (blue collars, white collars, labourers, etc) performing the story-telling of "commerce".

We can say to you over and over again that this sensory-living-life-form is a daffodil, is yellow and is part of this and that and does this and that.............. etc, etc. If you believe/trust what we told you, when next you sense this sensory life-form, your head will be so filled with the story-telling we gave you (non-sense - brainwashing) bouncing to and fro between your ears (memorisation), that you will disconnect from that life-form and be unable to sense the sensory-information it is willingly sharing with you about its natural purpose for the dream of life that is nature/earth/MAN. Your direct experience/perception has been severed. The story-telling provided to you becomes just like a potato sack you use to superimpose over the sensory-life-form to completely cover/shroud it in a man-made darkness.

The story-telling has become a HOOD as in priesthood, brotherhood, sisterhood, childhood, livelihood, adulthood, etc. At no "time" through direct experience (first party to first party) has the sensory-life-form told you that it is a daffodil and is yellow, etc. All that has happened here is we, 3rd parties, have got you to re-present the "intellectual-property" (story-telling - the performance of this life-form is a daffodil and is yellow, etc,) so that you can perform the story-telling from the original script we gave you ON BEHALF OF THE SENSORY-LIFE-FORM.

Not only have we lied to you but we have conned you into committing (being party to) fraud and have you show up as a liar while you continue setting the lie (story-telling of this life-form is a daffodil and is yellow, etc) into motion. You have kidnapped the sensory-life/character of this sensory-life-form so that you can act as an impostor of this sensory-life-form giving the impression that the information you are sharing with others is true, when in fact, it is lies.

AND, you are unable to bring forward the first party (sensory-life-form) to back your claims (story-telling). We will never be able to hear it directly, first party to first party, from the tongue of the sensory-life-form. Innocent or not, nieve or not, all we've got here is a blatant orchestrated scam set into motion by 3rd party intermeddlers, interceders, interlopers.

This is exactly what happens with "The System" of commerce, numerics, etc. The only reason you know anything about commerce is because you have been educated/brainwashed about commerce by other men and women. At no "time" have you had any direct experience with commerce. At no "time" have you ever had one-on-one sensory interaction (touch, taste, feel, smell, hear, see) with commerce, or any form of communication with commerce. You cannot because commerce has no life force energy to share with you; it is nothing but an idea dreamt up out of thin air.

Commerce is a dead corpse that you are performing for because commerce cannot exist or "do" anything without your life force energy. All the story telling that has come out of commerce, mathematics, geometry, etc, is lies because none of it has come from direct experience with sensory-life-forms showing up (thanks to 3rd party performances) as a, b, c, 1, 2, 3, compass, square. All "system science" is rooted in lies, and yet we base the way we live our lives on "system-science". No wonder we (Earth/Nature/MAN) are in such a mess.

Earth is not dying, we are killing it with our exhaustive performance of "intellectual property"! We are destroying everything that are sensory-life-forms to create the non-sense performance of ideas ("intellectual property") that have no natural purpose for the dream of life that is nature, earth, MAN. All we can do while we are lost in these lies, is to do immense harm and destruction to sensory-life as we pursue unnatural (non-sensory) purposes (story telling). We have to destroy living, sensory things to create all the physical and material scenery and props for these unnatural ideas to be set into motion. We are destroying who we really are and are part of because we have been hijacked from our true natural purpose, becoming the living dead wreaking havoc and idolising the "progress" of our "civilisation".

What's behind all this is that you, and everyone, have been trained to operate under limited liability/responsibility, passing on the full-responsibility/liability for your life to others (3rd parties) who administer your life for you. While you are lost in the performance of the storytelling of "The System", you give up the full-responsibility/liability for your life and for all life.

Again, this is all explained in greater detail as found amongst our many videos, podcasts, articles, debates, discussions, etc.

All the best
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life

Your first statment

We are in two camps or Ven diagrams with no intersecting regions. Myself, my arguments are based on simple math and the logic of provable arguments, while yours is based in abstract opinions. My debate is set within the confines of the framework of reality based logic and math, but you however are completely free with to argue without out any restrictions rules of logic in a sort of anarchistic pseudo logic. You are confusing your abstract ideas with reality. They are only become real, once they are provable with logic.

In all this time you have not proved that math is unreliable, temporary, unreal or untrustworthy. Please tell me when every math when is temporary.

Thanks for the note and the illustration of transitory nature of the performance art. Performances are an individual creation which did not exist previously, an invention if you will. A play does not continue to exist after the play is over. Harry Potter can “appear” to exist during the performance but the viewer has to ignore the stage, the audience, and their knowledge of just walking into a theatre, basically a lot of things, but if you ignored all that, you could believe the character of Harry Potter actually exists and is real during the performance. It would also be within your ability to test this belief by jumping up on the stage and asking Harry to turn the chair into a dog. If Harry did turn the chair into a dog then the viewer would have proved Harry Potter is real. My point is that it is idea that Harry is real during the performance is testable.

You are comparing apple and oranges. Math is not a performance art. There are no similarities. Non-math examples cannot be used to try to prove that math is not real and a temporary belief of man's mind. Math is a language which explains the physical properties of the universe. I get it, you disagree with the language (math), but I submit, the language and physical properties of the universe are fused. When you say math is not real or temporary one of two things are going one, 1) you also have to say the physical properties of the universe do not exist or are temporary 2) the language of math has been incorrectly describing the physical properties of the universe. Which one is it?

In order for your system to work you need to disprove the idea that math is an accurate depiction the processes that appear in nature. You have not even come close to doing that. 12+12= 24 as it was last week.

I think the pure logic of math is your krytonite.

Cheers

Re: Your First Statement (5)

Back all your claims Fred, bring forward the first party "maths" - and we are not asking for a brainwashed man to come forward on behalf of "maths" acting as "maths" author-rised re-presentative. Until you can do this, innocent or not, you are blatantly lying when making such claims on behalf of "maths". Until you can bring forward the first party number one we are unable to move forward. Until then, almost everything you are claiming on behalf of "maths", etc, are false.

Re-presenting "intellectual property" is a performance Fred, is coming from a script (play on words).

"Hello number 1, where are you? Helllloooooooooooooooo, anyone there?" Even after millions of sunrises we'd still be waiting for a response from number one.

Your framework for debate is clearly based inside the framework of your extensive brainwashing.

At no "time" are we attacking you, the living MAN whose flesh lives and blood flows Fred.

Your First Statement

Arthur,

Interesting, though you cannot explain where the math language falls down, while only explanation is a deflection argument that my mind is brainwashed and I cannot see this. First, that is a straight out cop-out "augment" I could say the the earth is flat and you cannot see this because your mind had been brainwashed to the round earth model. That is no argument. Every thinking person knows this, and so do you Arthur.

My motive with trying to get you to admit that you use math every day was the make the point once you use and rely on something, you are by default admitting it existed.

An example, you buy a car and say the brakes do not work, but all the time you are complaining about the brakes, you are regularly driving the car. Your credibility about the reality of your brake complaint is highly suspect.

Fred

Math is an image, exists in

Math is an image, exists in the mind

Minds create this world, through translation to these bodies, naturally we obviously have the ability to use these translations; language of math, to code sequences and observations, so that the language can be repeated. Proven to translate/program to another mind, and to another's.

What we have created, is sick. <--period

We have to come together and see these problems and spread word, because Man in a whole currently doesn't see it. If Man did, they would change it, but so many are oblivious, and to busy maintaining the system.

Raising concern does not make Man, Woman or Child hypocritical or contraditive.

We, like many, are 'born' to something that has spread disease and harm to all of life. And have a lot of cleaning up to do fred. Seeing the mess, or the harm to these bodies and the lives which sustain it, is the first step to cleaning up.

And steps they are.

It would be very hard to go alone, solo, in the natural world and live in such communities dreamed for. But with enough Man, Woman and Child, to serve each others family immunity in a natural world, it is not only possible, but real!

All over earth family communities of all life's wonders gather and live on sacred family grounds. From the ant to the whale, to the mino or the elephant, and man..we all are capable right from the beginning to survive natural, fully protected by a loving family domain, past on through generations of families in a mortal eternity of thought and loving creation.

Such is completely natural, and real. And happens all around us all, all the while many hardly notice from the business/busyness of system maintenance. All the while freedom is just a breath of fresh air, drink of spring water, dew of spring day away.

Seems stupid when all this abundance and possibility, all exist right before us, and we do nothing but shit on it, sweep it under the carpet, and leave it for the next wo/man to deal with.

Math, thus far has served purpose but only to distract Man from his instinct and creative powers within a natural breathing world. Not the dead one such math's in our mind, have made. We all see the poisonous repercussions..but just too busy.

Hard work after all, keeping these systems alive, for the dead needs life to thrive.

Math does not exist, so much as this conversation does not exist. For this conversation to live or be even a little 'real', energy must be given, randomly without sense from me. For math to live or be even a little 'real', energy must be given randomly without sense from me.

Currently for currency we give all our energy to the dead world that needs math, and our energy to live. And of course you must know, math has many friends at this party for the dead.

Earth exists. Man exists. Grass exists. Tree exists. The words on this screen do not, but you can take this translation of earth, man, grass, tree and go sense it for yourself. Without belief. But many don't, they are taught belief in dead images, and lost their sense, or not used it.

Belief is the glue of senselessness. Feelings, thoughts, actions, thats the glue of harmony. Sensory feeling, direct and 'personal'

If fred had a biography written, would all those who do not know him and red it, know him? Or would they have to meet fred and sense the man that he is, to know him? Could they believe in their own image translation through words and persuasions, to know the biography of fred through written language? Sure. But it isn't real.

It is this image power that is the brainwash. We have stopped creating in our 'own' image, thought, idea, feeling, direct sense,
and taken upon a belief to do it for us.

Math is a translation of an image, just like language. Images aren't real. But powerful tools of persuasion.

Translation breakdown.

Lots of words Scott, but

Lots of words Scott, but you did not say anything that actually shows where math falls down, or as you say " Translation breakdown."

Where does math actually breakdown. A simple example would be fine.

Is this something you feel is going to happen in the future?

Looking forward to your response.

Kind regards,

Fred

Lots of words Scott, but

If you take a stick in its natural form it is just a stick. If you then apply or superimpose markings and symbols (straight lines and squiggly lines) at arbitrary regular intervals onto the stick it MAGICALLY becomes/appears to be a measuring device known by beLIEvers as a "Rule". The Man who dictates the distance between these arbitrary lines, the symbols used (and their meaning) and peoples obedience to this "Rule" is thus the "Ruler". These markings only have meaning to those who are brainwashed/educated to beLIEve in those meanings. Anyone who has not been brainwashed/educated to beLIEve in those meanings can only sense a stick with straight and squiggly lines on it, a piece of harmed or destroyed nature. MATH is NON-SENSE make-beLIEve.

Re: Lots of words Scott, but you did not say anything........

Hi Fred, in your last post to us and in your reply to Scott, you asked: "Where does math actually breakdown".

In our last reply to you: "Re: Your First Statement (6)": http://loveforlife.com.au/content/10/09/14/dinosaur-deception-dinosaurs-... - we clearly showed you, in numerous ways, the breakdown of maths.

We also said this "Can you find where mathematics is not party to destruction and where MAN has not been party to harm caused by mathematical thinking?

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life

Arthur, I re-read your

Arthur,

I re-read your article and you did not actually give an example of where math breaks down. You did give an impassioned argument on your philosophy and how you see math causes harm. Math is not philosophy. Mathematical relationships do exist.

Also, I do not have to defend mathematics.

Fred

Re: Math is an image, exists in the mind

Awesome Post Scott.

Re: Your First Statement (6)

Fred, because many of us are using non-sensory alphabet languages still does not make mathematics true/real. Because many of us were educated (got at - brainwashed) still does not make mathematics real/true. The evolution of "The System" of commerce with all its mathematics, geometry/sacred geometry and read and write alphabet languages (all rooted in mathematics) given life-energy by everyone trained to use NON-SENSE languages still does not make it real/true.

Earth is not dying - Earth is being killed by us (MAN) because we are lost in the storytelling of a non-sensory language setting into motion complete and utter destruction to Earth and MAN. At the heart of this Earth wide devastation is mathematics.

Thanks to extensive brainwashing passed down through all the generations of "educated slaves", we now rely upon prosthetics and fictions, that come in all forms of shapes, sizes and purposes, making us severely handicapped and extremely disconnected from SENSE (using our senses), causing us to give up what comes naturally for MAN and all of Earth/Nature.

Yes, we temporarily use mathematics everyday but we recognise the destruction that mathematics based thinking is doing to Earth/Life/MAN all-around-us so we are determined to wean our lives away from this kind of thinking and the destruction that goes with it. We are currently driving a car (dead-corpse) with faulty brakes but our intention in this life is to achieve the tumultuous breakthrough where we no longer need the car and can stop using it and stop causing so much damage. The same applies to all other system based thought control/worship that has us kill Earth, day in, day out.

Mathematics puts us under LIMITED LIABILITY (passing the buck).
We are returning to FULL-LIABILITY/RESPONSIBILITY.

The non-sense alphabet languages we are using are/were all we know/knew because they are what we have had drummed into us since we were young and what makes "The System' go round every day but using these dead-corpse alphabet languages is keeping us in the dark cave of system thought control/enslavement. Let's go out into the sunlight and see what's there.

The use of mathematics is the cancer spreading throughout life without resistance because people believe it is true and real and that there isn't anything else natural but there is, and this is what we are clearly showing. But you need to be prepared to accept that there might be something else natural and explore that before you will see/sense it. You have to take off the hood of your system thought control and try on some different natural thinking.

Yes, we temporarily still use system alpha/numeric languages because it is how we currently all communicate and most of us haven't learnt to use and trust their senses - we are still stuck in non-sense/anti-life, still disconnected from naturally who we really are and what we are naturally really part of. To us, we sense/see the light at the end of the tunnel. "The System" is the tunnel and we are shifting out of this man-made darkness of destruction and extremely limited non-natural ways of life back to the light of SENSE/Consciousness/Do No Harm/Life Is A Gift/Kindom.

What is before 1? Nothing. Which means that there was nothing and then there was something, that life came out of no life. This is finite, non-sense thought at play. There is no beginning or end to life. What came first; the chicken or the egg? Through fantasy, illusion and delusion, mathematics has been used to make the eternal present-sense interconnectedness of sensory-life finite, to destroy the continuation of sensory-life from seed to plant, from egg to chicken, from mother to child, from MAN to MAN.

Everything created using 0 - 1 mathematics is doomed. It has to have an invention (beginning) and inevitably an end (death), just like the brakes on the car wearing out from use. Nature is not like this - life continues co-creating and expanding without creating "new" inventions that perform immense harm. Even when a tree lies down and begins to be absorbed into Earth, it is still co-creating and expanding life because its body is providing life for the soil and the plants that grow nearby. There is an eternal presence of life/consciousness that never dies because it has no beginning or end. Using mathematics, we try to break this eternity = death.

The purpose of nature, of all sensory-life-forms, inanimate or not, is to live for the co-creation of the eternal presence (here and now) of the dream of Life/Nature/Earth/MAN. When MAN started inventing the CON-cepts/CON-structs of 1 and 0, MAN started creating finite inventions/thoughts/ideas out of thin air that have NO NATURAL PURPOSE for the dream of life and therefore are aliens/prosthetics/dead-things provided ONLY with a beginning and an end = CHAOS = destruction.

Through extensive brainwashing, this CON-ditioning instructs MAN to superimpose these destructive coming and going, birth to death (0 - 1) inventions over the sensory-dream of life, over sensory-life-forms, which can ONLY do immense harm and destruction to MAN/Earth/Nature/Sensory-Life. They Do Harm because NON-SENSE/SENSORY ideas/thoughts/images/pictures/sounds/taste/smell/feel HAVE NO PURPOSE, NO INTENTION for the sensory dream of life.

From the attunement of co-creating the sensory-dream of life we've fallen into the vicious man-made cycles of a make-believe world where CON-structing physical, material manifestations of zero to one inventions out of sensory-living life-forms, inanimate or not, causes immense harm and destruction.

Stuck in this finite, washing machine vortex (prison) of absolute madness we've been going from zero to one back to zero to one back to zero to one without any escape from this horrific treadmill of manufactured CHAOS,............ that's unless we let go of "system thought control" (NON-SENSE/SENSORY IMAGES/PICTURES), back to setting SENSE/SENSORY images into motion, which is the ONLY way to break the destructive grip zero to one has over us.

Thanks to mathematics/science we now have mountainous garbage tips, extreme pollution of air, water, soil, extreme sickness and disease all across Earth, extreme unhappiness, emptiness, loneliness, depression, poverty, starvation, malnutrition, obesity, over 100,000 dangerous poisons being absorbed by everything natural/sensory all across Earth, massive destruction to mountains, valleys, plains, forests, rivers, oceans, reefs, creatures, tribes of MAN, etc, and almost endless wars as lost MAN goes from zero to one and back again and again and again and again and again, economic booms and busts, social upheavals, rampant harm done by one MAN to another, endless greed and selfishness through the rise and fall of consumerism, materialism and ownership (power and control), of dog eat dog, of survival of the fittest. And we think we are at the pinnacle of civilisation. Well, we are because civilisation is all about death to life. It is anti-life. We are almost at the pinnacle of complete and utter destruction.

Can you find where mathematics is not party to destruction and where MAN has not been party to harm caused by mathematical thinking?

Consciousness is not separated from the physical form. The physical is consciousness because consciousness is sensory, not some separated, "apart" invisible feeling/connection. Consciousness is total connection with all of life using all our senses - touch, taste, smell, hear, see, feel. Mathematics is a dead corpse and everything that comes out of mathematics mirrors this.

As innocent children, if we had been provided with idiot friendly full-disclosure as to the extreme consequences of what would become of our lives when we set non-sensory ("intellectual property") images/thoughts/ideas into motion, thanks to brainwashing education, we would have said, "NO". What child would choose a life of school and parents who have to work many, many hours just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table? What child would say, "Yes" if they were told, " Look, we are going to set you on a path of thinking and behaving that is going to destroy who you are and all of life around you. We are going to teach you to cause beginnings and endings constantly, to have things falling apart around you so that you have to deal with mountains of toxic rubbish and sickness and disease and wrinkling, shriveling, decaying bodies. We are going to make you into slaves so that you can constantly become the bridge between these beginnings and endings, the corpse bearer holding up the corpses so that they can appear to have substance, have life, have sense."

With consciousness, there are no prosthetics. We should not have interfered with life through the use of mathematical thought. We should not have interfered with the eternal presence of life in MAN/nature. This is illogical, madness. Scientists rely on the "logic" of science but how is this logic when it causes destruction? People may say that it is idealistic and unrealistic to think that there is another natural way to live but is it not totally idealistic and unrealistic to think that we can keep living these unnatural lives of destruction, of beginnings and ends, of 0 to 1, without there being some consequences? Such as the death of Earth/Nature/MAN.

Our system lives are the setting into motion of this destruction (CHAOS), this death to life, this 0 to 1, this surreal, finite man-made existence.

All the best
Arthur & Fiona Cristian

Re: Your First Statement (2)

Hi Fred, like we said, there are many Arthur & Fiona Cristian videos, articles, debates, etc, to explore so that you might fully comprehend the insights we are sharing with you. Belief is not proof of fact - reality is not based on belief which is almost all you are offering up in this thread Fred.

Also, something to contemplate on (copy/pasted from a recent Facebook comment).

Before "The System" invasion all tribes of MAN across earth had no concept of time/calendars - they had no understanding of yesterday or tomorrow or Monday, Tuesday..... or January, February........ or weeks, months, years..... or 1.00pm, 2.00pm........etc, etc. They lived in the moment/present-sense. Direct experience, first party to first party, only happens in present-sense. The force behind "The System" are story-tellers who created education, etc. to enforce their story-telling upon their captives. Do you know anyone, a first party, who was there (Crusades, Dark Ages, etc)? Our articles, debates, videos, etc, go into this subject in great detail.

As we were, you were also brought up in "The System" brainwashed extensively by their story-telling. In "The System" story-telling provides us with the ONLY tools to explain to us who we are, what we are part of, etc. With story-telling, there is no direct experience. All we've got is the re-presentation of "intellectual property" (story-telling) which is the basis of all belief, faith and associated opinion. This is fraud and lies. All lies require a "time-code", are you aware of this? No lie can be created without a "time-code". Lies require a past and a future. The victors write all the history, thus true history is written to suit the outcomes/agendas of the victors. Refer to our videos, articles, etc, for more on this.

Up to roughly 1780AD 99.99% of the total population of MAN across Earth could not read and write any alphabet language and never did. All tribes of MAN had their tribal/village talk which had nothing to do with alphabet languages. Even up to 1930AD still more than 90% of MANS population were illiterate to alphabet languages. This means that today's supposed 6.7 to 7 billion population of MAN (no direct experience with population - they tell us what it is) had nothing to do with recording alphabet language history (his-story/her-story) because they could not read and write. The only ones who could read and write any alphabet language were the owners of the castles, the land-lords, barons, royal families, high-priest-HOODS, aristocrats, etc, and all their scribes and lackeys. They re-presented roughly 20 per one million of the population of MAN. These people were the ONLY ones who recorded ALL his-story/her-story (history) in any read and write alphabet language.

It took the better part of 20 years to master the craft and practice of any alphabet language - this included learning mathematics and geometry. All alphabet languages were crafted out of mathematics which was crafted out of sacred geometry/geometry. All three are abominations - they do not exist, are not sensory-life-forms. They are all made up out of thin air, all rooted in story-telling (re-presenting "intellectual property") which is all about reaction to trauma.

The Dream Of Life Part 6 - Under The Spell Of Intellectual Property
Arthur Cristian - 51 Minutes 52 Seconds

Re: Your First Statement

Fred, a, b, c, 1, 2, 3, compass, square ("intellectual property") do not exist, never have, never will. They are just ideas ("intellectual property") made up by MAN. There is no direct experience because there are no sensory-living first parties (life-forms) and therefore there is nothing (no sensory-life-form embodied as a, b, c, 1, 2, 3, compass, square to sense). System science is based on a, b, c, 1, 2, 3, compass, square - meaning, lies crafted out of lies. "Intellectual Property" requires belief, faith and associated opinion. Belief is not proof of fact. It requires massive amounts of brainwashing to believe in what you said "we cannot be honest with ourselves when we enjoy and use the benefits that result from science in everyday life". Growing up, none of us were provided with idiot friendly full-disclosure as to what would become of our lives when we set NON-SENSE/NON-SENSORY images (thoughts/ideas) into motion. NON-SENSE is all about HARM to MAN and MANS Earth/Nature. Many of the Love For Life links provided in this thread go into this subject in great detail. Currently, we just don't have the waking-life to explain it all (the big picture) again in this thread.

Also, "world view" is not our "world view" because it is just thoughts/ideas made up by other men and women (3rd parties) telling you/us how to think, feel and act (education = brainwashing).

By the way we are raw-living food eaters, we don't cook/heat nature. Harm evolves out of harm evolving out of harm............ Lies evolve out of lies.......... Having a bypass was caused by lies (harm) evolving out of lies (harm). Completely break this pattern and we can be set free from the effects of harm. Raw-living food is part of this breaking free from harm caused by science and by cooking/heating nature and by setting impure and insincere thoughts, emotions and actions into motion. This is all explained in great detail as can be found amongst our many posts.

The Dream Of Life Part 6 - Under The Spell Of Intellectual Property
Arthur Cristian - 51 Minutes 52 Seconds

Re: Your First Statement

Fred, you are re-presenting "intellectual property". That is all that you've got on offer mate. There are no first parties you can bring forward to back your claims, instead, all you can offer are actors performing as imposters of first parties - this is fraud and blatant lies. For more on all this refer to our many posts below like the video "Under The Spell Of Intellectual Property" and debates like "Crop Circles Are A Major Hoax" and "Capturing Another MANS Uniqueness". All the best - Arthur & Fiona Cristian

The Cristian Family November 2006

Love For Life Links


Below are mostly recent links to Love For Life, videos, articles, songs, debates/discussions and podcasts.

All videos are embedded below, just scroll down to find them.

They contain a vast amount of insights for you to contemplate on.

It's best you do not believe in anything we say and instead use your brain/senses to scrutinise all information and go where the logic of truth takes you.

Links to all other videos, etc, can be found here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3385

Background information about us, can be found by scrolling down the Love For Life website Quick User Guide: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6608

QUICK INTRODUCTION INTO
THE LOVE FOR LIFE INSIGHTS

Check out the Food Forest we created in a very short period of time.
We demonstrate how to grow lots of organic food in small spaces quickly.

"From Bare Dirt To Abundance"
A Year In The Life Of The
Love For Life Food Forest

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
8th February 2013
51 Minutes 46 Seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJCcCvZ97A
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8352

Ben Lowrey Interviews Arthur Cristian
Love For Life - 8th February 2012

95 Minutes 28 Seconds

The Dream Of Life Part 6 - Under The Spell Of Intellectual Property
Arthur Cristian - 51 Minutes 52 Seconds

The "Name" Is The Mark Of The Beast The Strawman
Identifying Your Slave Status In "The System"

By Arthur Cristian - Love For Life
5th February 2012 - 56 Minutes 25 Seconds

OPPT & Slavery Through Intellectual Conscription By Deceit
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
27th February 2013 onwards.....
Part One: http://youtu.be/Qjp_9nlrBao

Part Two: http://youtu.be/tbybeOWZ-Bc

Part Three: http://youtu.be/yOWoxH-HbVw

Part Four: coming
Part Five: coming

Water Is The Life Of MANS Consciousness (Breath)
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life - 8th February 2013
Part One: http://youtu.be/4ze66_33wxM - 70 Minutes 5 Seconds

Part Two: http://youtu.be/43gIi-sjxJc - 81 Minutes 13 Seconds

Part Three : http://youtu.be/oooY6W63K-M - 70 Minutes 18 Seconds

http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8350
Part Four: coming

Also check out
The Dream Of Life Video Series Part 5A, 5B & 5C - System Science Is Fraud And The Timeline Of Chaos
All links provided below in the video section.

More videos coming shortly - All videos are embedded below:

Control The Land
And You Control MAN On The Land
Displace MAN From Land
And You Turn MAN Into Slaves

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
April 2011 (Updated 14th September 2011)
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8237

Crop Circles Are A Massive Hoax
Facebook Discussion On Simon Kawai's Wall
Involving Arthur & Fiona Cristian
31st August 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8470

The Divine Spark
Facebook Discussion With Raymond Karczewski
Arthur & Fiona Cristian & Others
2nd October 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8483

The Death Trap
By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
18th September 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8480

Capturing Another MANS Uniqueness
A Facebook Debate With
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
And Raymond Karczewski
Starting 13th May 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8414

The Continuation Of The Max Igan Saga
21st August 2013
Facebook Discussion With
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8478

So You Want The Good Bits Of "The System"
But Not The Bad Bits?
By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life - 12th August 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8468

Life Is A Gift
Includes Many Love For Life Comments
And Insights Posted June-July 2013
In Facebook
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8460

System Life + GovernMENt +
True Purpose Behind Chemtrails And HAARP

By Arthur Cristian - Love For Life
1st June 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8428

A Spell Master At Work
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
21st April 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8401

Turning Away From The Reflection
Of MANS Looking Glass

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
30th April 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8404

Frank O'Collins, His Ucadia
And One-Heaven.org
Worships "The System"
That Is The Beast And Is Hell

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
30th April 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8407

Comment About The Video
"Satanic Ritual Child Sacrifices Exposed"

By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
12th October 2011
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8232
http://youtu.be/-jTdc04ODU4

What Is Really Going On
Behind Barrack Obama's Plan
For The Chinese To Invade America
When The U.S. Dollar Collapses

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
23rd June 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8438

A Little Bit About ORGASM & WATER
And
Re-Presenting Intellectual Property
Will Never Get You To Truth

By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
20th to 22nd May 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8418

Comment From Arthur & Fiona Cristian Regarding The Summary
About The NASA Future Strategic Issues & Warfare Circa 2025
Dr Dennis M Bushnell - Warfare Strategy Document - Video & PDF

24th June 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8439

REMEDY

Links to "The Steps Of Kindom"
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8304
or
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8256
or
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/5788

Link to "The Steps Of Kindom Background"
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8305

SONGS

Song - Save Our Lives - Rough Demo - With Lyrics
Written By Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
August 2007 - 5 Minutes 38 Seconds

Song - Celebrate Death To The Living - Rough Demo - With Lyrics
Written By Hannah Wood & Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
July 2012 - 6 Minutes 30 Seconds

More professionally made Love For Life videos & songs will be posted in the coming months.
We've been on a massive learning curve in almost all areas of the Love For Life work we do.
We basically started as amateurs/novices.

LINKS

Link To Find A List Of All
Articles, Debates, Discussions, Videos & Podcasts
By Arthur & Fiona Cristian

http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3385

BACKGROUND

Macquarie Bank
To learn what happened with Macquarie Bank from 2005 onwards go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/5

The Cristian Family
To explore what happened since March 2005 to change our lives and fill us with so many inspiring insights
can be found by scrolling down through this webpage: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6608
The disclaimers will fill you in even more.

Extensive Research Library
Over 11,000 individual articles, research documents, podcasts, videos, discussions/debates, etc,
are contained within the Extensive Research Library: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/82
Well over 100 million browsers have visited the website since December 2006.

Examples Of Many:

Astronomy - Geocentricity - Heliocentricity - Does The Earth Go Around The Sun Or Does The Sun Go Around The Earth?
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3455

Dinosaurs - Are They Still Amongst Us? Evidence Says They Are
Dinosaurs: Science Or Science Fiction by David Wozney
Dinosaur DECEPTION! Dinosaurs Never Existed! Dinosaur Fossils Are A Hoax

http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3457

Raw Food - Living Food - Vegetarian Websites - Recipes - Lots Of Information On Why A Living Food Diet
This link provides embedded videos created by Gary Yourofsky
and a documentary "A Delicate Balance - The Truth" created by Aaron Schiebner.
He is the grandson of Dr Vera Scheibner, a very well-known anti-vaccine campaigner.
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/5068

Facebook


We also post lots of information including Love For Life debates/discussions on Facebook.
As examples of many, links to some of these debates/discussions, like Julian Assange, are provided in this email/post.
Links to Arthur's Facebook wall and other Love For Life group pages are also provided below.

VIDEOS

OPPT & Slavery Through Intellectual Conscription By Deceit
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
27th February 2013 onwards.....
Part One: http://youtu.be/Qjp_9nlrBao

Part Two: http://youtu.be/tbybeOWZ-Bc

Part Three: http://youtu.be/yOWoxH-HbVw

Part Four: coming
Part Five: coming

"From Bare Dirt To Abundance"
A Year In The Life Of The
Love For Life Food Forest

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
8th February 2013
51 Minutes 46 Seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJCcCvZ97A
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8352

Love For Life Kindom Garden Bowral
Created By 18 Year Old Aidan

5th December 2012
4 Minutes 27 Seconds
http://youtu.be/eJQTSZk3kmQ
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8344

Ben Lowrey Interviews Arthur Cristian
Love For Life - 8th February 2012

95 Minutes 28 Seconds

The "Name" Is The Mark Of The Beast The Strawman
Identifying Your Slave Status In "The System"

By Arthur Cristian - Love For Life
5th February 2012 - 56 Minutes 25 Seconds

The Dream Of Life Part 6 - Under The Spell Of Intellectual Property
Arthur Cristian - 51 Minutes 52 Seconds

Water Is The Life Of MANS Consciousness (Breath)
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life - 8th February 2013
Part One: http://youtu.be/4ze66_33wxM - 70 Minutes 5 Seconds

Part Two: http://youtu.be/43gIi-sjxJc - 81 Minutes 13 Seconds

Part Three : http://youtu.be/oooY6W63K-M - 70 Minutes 18 Seconds

http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8350
Part Four: coming

The Dream Of Life - Part 5A - System Science Is Fraud And The Timeline Of Chaos
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - 57 Minutes 35 Seconds

The Dream Of Life - Part 5B - System Science Is Fraud And The Timeline Of Chaos
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - 67 Minutes 26 Seconds

The Dream Of Life - Part 5C - System Science Is Fraud And The Timeline Of Chaos
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - 67 Minutes 25 Seconds

The Dream Of Life - Part 5D - Images Of Deception
The Intelligence Agents Amongst Us
"We Will Lead Every Revolution Against Us"

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - 44 Minutes 53 Seconds

The Dream Of Life - Part One
Arthur Cristian - Love For Life
62 Minutes 47 Seconds

The Dream Of Life - Part Two
Arthur Cristian - Love For Life
83 Minutes 47 Seconds

The Dream Of Life - Part Three
Arthur Cristian - Love For Life
91 Minutes 10 Seconds

The Dream Of Life - Part Four
Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
57 Minutes 30 Seconds

Key To Kindom - Co-Creation Of Do No Harm Communities
Causing A Mass Exodus From "The System"

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life - February 2011
24 Minutes 48 Seconds

Dream Of Life - Kindom Garden Update
4th February 2012 - Love For Life
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
17 Minutes 16 Seconds

Once Upon A Time by Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
Short Stories Recorded Mid 2009
8 Minutes 38 Seconds

RECENT ARTICLES / DEBATES / DISCUSSIONS

The Divine Spark
Facebook Discussion With Raymond Karczewski
Arthur & Fiona Cristian & Others
2nd October 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8483

The Death Trap
By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
18th September 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8480

Crop Circles Are A Massive Hoax
Facebook Discussion On Simon Kawai's Wall
Involving Arthur & Fiona Cristian
31st August 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8470

The Continuation Of The Max Igan Saga
21st August 2013
Facebook Discussion With
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8478

So You Want The Good Bits Of "The System"
But Not The Bad Bits?
By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life - 12th August 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8468

Life Is A Gift
Includes Many Love For Life Comments
And Insights Posted June-July 2013
In Facebook
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8460

Comment From Arthur & Fiona Cristian Regarding The Summary
About The NASA Future Strategic Issues & Warfare Circa 2025
Dr Dennis M Bushnell - Warfare Strategy Document - Video & PDF

24th June 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8439

What Is Really Going On
Behind Barrack Obama's Plan
For The Chinese To Invade America
When The U.S. Dollar Collapses

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
23rd June 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8438

System Life + GovernMENt +
True Purpose Behind Chemtrails And HAARP

By Arthur Cristian - Love For Life
1st June 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8428

A Little Bit About ORGASM & WATER
And
Re-Presenting Intellectual Property
Will Never Get You To Truth

By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
20th to 22nd May 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8418

Capturing Another MANS Uniqueness
A Facebook Debate With
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
And Raymond Karczewski
Starting 13th May 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8414

Turning Away From The Reflection
Of MANS Looking Glass

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
30th April 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8404

Frank O'Collins And His Ucadia
And One-Heaven.org
Worships "The System"
That Is The Beast And Is Hell

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
30th April 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8407

Comment About The Video
"Satanic Ritual Child Sacrifices Exposed"

By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
12th October 2011
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8232
http://youtu.be/-jTdc04ODU4

A Spell Master At Work
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
21st April 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8401

The Spell Is Broken
Taking The Land To Create Kindom

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
3rd March 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8365

Max Igan & The Fraud Of The OPPT
(One Peoples Public Trust)

Facebook Discussion With Arthur & Fiona Cristian
17th to 19th February 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8357

OPPT Is A Scam
Why "Self" Is Not MAN

By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
21st February 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8363

A Facebook Discussion
About OPPT

Involving Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Chris Mansergh and Mark McMurtrie
8th March 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8452

Control The Land
And You Control MAN On The Land
Displace MAN From Land
And You Turn MAN Into Slaves

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
April 2011 (Updated 14th September 2011)
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8237

The Incarceration of Dean Clifford
Email Sent To Wayne Swan
Govern(men)t Of Canada
Just(us) Department
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
9th February 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8349

Difference Between Limited Liability/Responsibility
And Full Liability/Responsibility

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Facebook - 13th July 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8295

Alloidal Rights/Natural Rights Is "Intellectual Property"
The Basis Of "Ownership"

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Facebook - 19th July 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8297

The Deception Of Alphabet Languages
Causing MANS Spiritual Suicide
The True Purpose Behind The Invention
Of Phonetics & Etymology

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life - 20th July 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8299

The Dual In Duality
Trapped In The Reflection Of 'i" Projection

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life - 3rd August 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8301

We Are Saying That "Going Within" Or "Going Without"
Is Non-Sense, Is "Intellectual Property",
Is Part Of The "System Science" "Spells"

A Facebook Discussion & Debate
By Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life - 8th to 11th August 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8302

Yellow Never Told Us It Was Yellow
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
12th September 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8319

The Non-Sense Obstacles
Of The "Sustainability Movement"
How The "Haves" (Rulers)
Still Want The "Have Nots" (Slaves)

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Facebook - 5th May to 2nd June 2011
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8178

Vortex Of Deactivation And Inactivity
Possible Facebook Espionage
Or Almost Undetectable Hacking

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
24th August 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8316

Julian Assange - Wikileaks
Another Of The Many "Good Guys" Coming Out
Of The Freemasonic/Satanic Production Line
With The Intention To Lead The Duped Sheeple
Into Entering The New World Order

A Facebook Discussion
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
Starting 27th August 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8347

Example: A4 page/Fax Sent To Gatton Court House Qld
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
15th December 2012
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8346
Website: http://loveforlife.com.au
Email : action@loveforlife.com.au
Mobile : 0011 61 418 203204 - (0418 203204)
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Re: Mathematics and science are built off the laws of man alone.

Fantastic post Scott. Well said.
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life

Like the ideas. I have

Like the ideas. I have thought dinosaurs are a hoax for a long time. But very interesting that Christian references the bible multiple times as a core part of his argument, yet makes it a point to claim that the Christians aren't Christians. Hmmmmmmmmm

I saw you had no concept of time in its Gregorian format

you got me interested to start with, then when i saw you had no concept of time in its Gregorian format, the bible reference i find particularly irrelevant as the bible as we know it today is only 300 years old. Put together over time with new bits added and changed over the century's, until we arrive at the King James version, winch most recognise as the bible.

True the old testament goes back some ways,but the idea that there is some written record of dinosaurs is laughable, the dinosaurs died out some 65million years ago, now we've only been around some 35 thousand years, it does not take Albert Einstein to work out your talking bollocks.

Some of your other points are arguable, but being the english King James bible is older than your corrupt, bankrupt country i wouldn't expect you to understand as America has no history, and you spawn the very worst type of Christians, i hope you sit yourself out and get a life.......

Response

To summarize the response of the fellow who told the writer of the story to get a life - any argument that demonizes and calls names to discredit the poster cannot be taken seriously, they provide no valid point, no meaning. It is a common practice to get on the offense in order to seem right, because to win you don't have to be right - you have to be in constant offense to make the original poster seem small and defensless. You did not address any points that were made. All this makes me think that it's nothing more than trolling. Provide something valid to be taken seriously.

Dinosaurs in the Art of Ancestors at Archaeolgical Museums

http://s8int.com/WordPress/wp-images/peabody/larco%20trio-small.jpg

If dinosaurs lived in the time of man you might expect sculptures or drawings of them to show up in archaeological museums--if the were willing to allow them to be shown. For the first 100 years after dinosaurs were "discovered" scientists were quite willing to call them "dragons".

Discovery Magazine points out that science is mostly just guessing with it s dinosaur art and that many species are represented by the same art showing them in the same stance.

But what if we are overlooking the depictions of actual eyewitnesses of the past?

http://s8int.com/WordPress/2013/10/19/no-your-dinosaurs-who-knows-for-ce...

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Support The Love For Life Campaign, Kindom & The Cristian Family

Supporting The Love For Life Website, The Cristian Family and The Living Dream Of Kindom (Creation Of Do No Harm Communities) - The Love for Life website is produced for free without a fee (no contract or conditions attached) as a gift of love for the benefit of others. If you feel you have gained something from visiting it, feel inspired, and would like to reciprocate as an equal exchange in substance and support (value), you are most welcome to make a gift of love to keep it and the dream of Kindom going. As always, we thank you for your gifts of love.

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The Cristian Family November 2006

We Stand For NO SYSTEM

Kindom (Do No Harm Communities) is the dream for freedom, but it is the dream for the freedom of those around us who also live the dream of freedom, because it is in living for the freedom of others that we get our freedom. When we live for the dreams of Kindom of those around us, we live life as a gift because we live for (dedicate our lives to) their dream of freedom, truth, peace, joy, abundance, etc, just as they live for our Kindom dreams too. This is true co-creation (cooperation) with no attack on the uniqueness of each of us. When we live this way, we have no need for any man-made system - everything/everyone has already been taken care of by our love for life.

Just as we do not have to jump 10 feet across the room to grab our next breath, neither do we have to worry about food, water and shelter because it has all been taken care of as we each co-create Kindoms/Kin-Domains for everyone. Now everybody and everything of the dream of life that is Kindom/Paradise is free (has been set free once again). The issue is greed and selfishness, power and control trips, arrogance, ignorance, being fed many many lies and being traumatised. The issue is not overpopulation - there is more than enough land available for every family to have a hectare (2.5 acres Kin-Domain) to care for. The land of Australia can provide a Kin-Domain for every family across Earth, each with a food forest, clean fresh drinking water and plenty of space for building natural do no harm habitats and with plenty of land left over.

Everyone must have the freedom to take full-responsibility for their lives, for the water they drink, the food they eat and for their shelter. Currently, "The System" forces everyone to give up taking full-responsibility so that we become grown up children accustomed to sucking on the nipples of "The System" corporations for everything, having to use money to get by and to follow the rules of money because we are not co-creating freedom, peace, truth, joy and abundance for each other. Money only leads to haves and have nots and all the abuse, manipulation and distractions that we are subjected to as slaves to money.

When we give up living for other's Kindom dreams, we start creating hell ("The System") all around us because we become self-centred - now it's all about "my freedom","my money", "my land", "my belief", "my saviour", "mine", "mine","mine", "i","i", "i", "own", "own", "own", etc. To protect what we claim we own requires a man-made system with FORCE to protect those self-centred claims. This is ALL trauma based and all story-telling (brainwashing/braindirtying).

Our true freedom comes when we set our thoughts of freedom into motion so that we live freedom rather than just talking and thinking about it while we still slave for "The System". Kindom will not happen while we meditate for hours in the bush or do yoga retreats or wait for Jesus or follow the processes of the OPPT (One People's Public Trust now called One People). This is not freedom because we are not living freedom because we are living the story-telling of Jesus or Zeitgeist or The Secret or Thrive or One Earth/Consciousness/People.

Living Kindom is very, very hard work as we set about repairing the damage to MAN/Earth/Nature that we are ALL responsible for but the burden becomes lighter the more of us put our life-energy into the dream of returning Earth to Paradise. Day-after-day, we all have to work our arses off until Kindom is all around us (MAN) once again. This is the price we pay to set each other free on a piece of land (Kin-Domain), so that no one is under the image-power (education/brainwashing/story-telling) of another MAN anymore and so that everyone can have their space of love to create and live their unique, do no harm dreams. This only happens once we have the Kindoms set up so that everyone is provided for.

Once we re-create the food forests, whether on land or in the suburbs, we can re-claim our freedom, breaking the strangle-hold of "The System" because we are no longer reliant on its services and benefits and no longer turning each other into slaves of "The System", cogs in the wheels of "The System" machine. If we don't put the effort in to set everyone and everything free all around us then we still live in HELL ("The System"). The key is to live for everyone else's freedom so that we can have it too.

From Bare Dirt To Abundance
A Year In The Life Of The
Love For Life Food Forest

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
8th February 2013
51 Minutes 46 Seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJCcCvZ97A

We live for NO SYSTEM. We do not lose anything by not having a man-made system and, in fact, we gain. We gain our freedom and we gain abundance. Let go of the fear.

The Cristian Family November 2006

A Collection Of Various Love For Life Posts
Providing The Big Picture We See

Sequential Order

The Dream Of Life Part 6
Under The Spell Of Intellectual Property

Arthur Cristian - 51 Minutes 52 Seconds
The Dream Of Life Part 6 - Under The Spell Of Intellectual Property - Arthur Cristian

The "Name" Is The Mark Of The Beast
The Strawman Identifying
Your Slave Status In "The System"

By Arthur Cristian - Love For Life
5th February 2012 - 56 Minutes 25 Seconds
The "Name" Is The Mark Of The Beast The Strawman Identifying Your Slave Status In "The System"

IMAGE POWER
The Nefarious Tactics Used
To Disguise Truth And Distract Us
From Remedy

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
24th January 2014
This post contains many recent Facebook comments
and email replies which collectively provides a big picture
into exposing the deception behind IMAGE POWER.
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8496

The Pull Of E-Motion
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
8th February 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8499

IMAGE POWER
Superb Diamond Range Interviewing
Arthur & Fiona Cristian 4th February 2014
http://youtu.be/qFnuuw3kLog
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8501

Trauma Induced Fantasy
July 2013 Interview With
Jeanice Barcelo And Arthur & Fiona Cristian
http://youtu.be/CZVj-ddUoZw
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8500

Processing Curses
A Lie Is A Curse
Liars Process Curses

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
26th February 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8503

How The System Is Really Constructed
Bouncing Back Curses Upon Curse Makers
To Stop Harm Forevermore

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
27th February 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8504

Slave To A Name
Parts One, Two, Three, Four,
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
3rd to 6th March 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8505

Educated Slaves
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
20th March 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8506

The Only Path To Freedom
Beware The False Steps

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life - 2nd April 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8508

Free-Dumb For All
Arthur and Fiona Cristian
Love For Life - 5th April 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8510

Revoking The Ego
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life - 7th April 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8511

How To Detect Intel Operatives Working
For The New World Order Agenda

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life - 10th April 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8512

How The Psyop Program & Intel Networks
Are Messing With Your Head +
His-Story/Her-Story

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - April 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8513

How MAN Commits Spiritual Suicide
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life - 3rd April 2014
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8509

Crop Circles Are A Massive Hoax
Facebook Discussion On Simon Kawai's Wall
Involving Arthur & Fiona Cristian
31st August 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8470

OPPT & Slavery Through Intellectual Conscription By Deceit
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
27th February 2013 onwards...
Part One: http://youtu.be/Qjp_9nlrBao
Part Two: http://youtu.be/tbybeOWZ-Bc
Part Three: http://youtu.be/yOWoxH-HbVw

Water Is The Life Of MANS Consciousness (Breath)
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life - 8th February 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8350
Part One: http://youtu.be/4ze66_33wxM - 70 Minutes 5 Seconds
Part Two: http://youtu.be/43gIi-sjxJc - 81 Minutes 13 Seconds
Part Three: http://youtu.be/oooY6W63K-M - 70 Minutes 18 Seconds

What Do You Believe On Origins?
Who Said There Was A Beginning?
Who's Truth Do You Accept?
Belief Is A Strange Idea.

Discussion Lyndell, Scott and Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Between March and April 2013
Posted 29th October 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8487

So You Want The Good Bits Of "The System"
But Not The Bad Bits?

By Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life - 12th August 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8468

Turning Away From The Reflection
Of MANS Looking Glass

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
30th April 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8404

REMEDY

From Bare Dirt To Abundance
A Year In The Life Of The
Love For Life Food Forest

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
8th February 2013
51 Minutes 46 Seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sJCcCvZ97A

Control The Land
And You Control MAN On The Land
Displace MAN From Land
And You Turn MAN Into Slaves

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
April 2011 (Updated 14th September 2011)
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8237

The Divine Spark
Facebook Discussion With Raymond Karczewski
Arthur & Fiona Cristian & Others
2nd October 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8483

Capturing Another MANS Uniqueness
A Facebook Debate With
Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
And Raymond Karczewski
Starting 13th May 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8414

The Spell Is Broken
Taking The Land To Create Kindom

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
3rd March 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8365

The Steps Of Kindom
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life 2006/2007
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8304

To explore these themes in greater detail go here where you can find links to all our Love For Life comments, articles, debates, discussions, videos, podcasts, etc: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3385

All the best
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life

Peaceful Transition Through Sacrifice And Service

We feel there is an essential peaceful do no harm transition required to get all of MAN back to standing on MANS feet without reliance upon another MAN for water, food, shelter. As it stands everyone in "The System" are highly dependent and reliant on the "group mind-set" that forms "The System" of slaves providing services and benefits for the emotionally addicted slaves to "The System" (and you can put us in the same basket too). The transition is to get MAN back to relying ONLY on nature without 3rd party interlopers, intermeddlers, interceders getting in the way. The transition is a team effort with the foresight for setting all of MAN free down-the-line so that MAN is no longer dependent on slaves and masters providing services, benefits, privileges and exclusivity while being bound to contracts, rituals, procedures, conditions, rules & regulations which compromises MAN severely.

This transition is all about shifting from limited liability/responsibility to full liability/responsibility. This full responsibility is all about caring for our health, nature all around us, clean uncorrupted (pure) water and food, partner/co-creator, children, shelter, animal-friends in partnership, etc. In "The System", we are already together destroying each other - we have to come together to create peace together so that we can all have peace. We cannot live peacefully when we are islands, not taking full responsibility for the lives of those around us until EVERYONE can take full responsibility for their life, which means that EVERYONE is healed of system trauma. In "The System", we all come together to make slaves of each other - now is the moment to come together to set each other free, to live for each other's freedom, peace, joy and abundance. Once we have set each other free, we are free.

Control The Land
And You Control MAN On The Land
Displace MAN From Land
And You Turn MAN Into Slaves

Arthur & Fiona Cristian - Love For Life
April 2011 (Updated 14th September 2011)
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8237

The Spell Is Broken
Taking The Land To Create Kindom

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
3rd March 2013
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8365

"The Steps Of Kindom"
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8304

---------

Once we fix these issues, we or our children or our descendants to come, can start focusing on the even bigger picture of getting back to where our ancestors were, as breatharyan's, before they fell into non-sense images to be enslaved by them.

All the best to you and your family
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life

The Cristian Family November 2006

The Cristian Family Declaration

The Cristian family and The Love for Life Campaign are apolitical, non-religious, non-violent, anti weapons, anti drugs (both pharmaceutical and recreational) and anti any ideology that denies the existence of Do No Harm Communities (Kindoms) and suppresses the uniqueness and freedom of all men, women and children.

The Cristian family and our Love For Life work is unaligned to any big business corporation, intelligence agency, government body, "system" law, "system" think tanks, "system" green or environmental movements, religion, cult, sect, society (fraternity, brotherhood, sisterhood, order, club, etc,) secret or not, hidden agenda, law or sovereignty group, occult, esoteric, New Age or Old Age.

The Cristian family supports and promotes the remedy that brings an everlasting peace, freedom, truth, joy, abundance and do no harm for all of life without causing loss of uniqueness or the need for having slaves and rulers. We are not into following the one in front or being shepherds for sheeple. Most importantly, we take full-responsibility for everything we think, feel and do.

The Cristian family are not Christians.

Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life

December 2006

The Cristian Family November 2006

THE CRISTIAN FAMILY PLEDGE

Being of clear brain, heart and intention, we each declare the following to be true:

• We have no intention of ending our own lives.

• We will not tolerate suppression of truth, ideas, freedom, or our work. We stand for freedom of speech.

• We stand together to support others in the expression of truths and freedom to speak out no matter how radical those ideas may seem.

• Standing for freedom takes courage; together we shall be strong in the face of all odds.

• If it is ever claimed that we have committed suicide, encountered an unfortunate accident, died of sickness/disease, disappeared, been institutionalized, or sold out financially or in any other way to self-interested factions, we declare those claims false and fabricated.

• We testify, assert and affirm without reservation, on behalf of all those who have dedicated their lives to the ending of secrecy and the promotion of freedom of thought, ideas and expression that we shall prevail.

• We Do Not Have Multiple Personality Disorders

Arthur Cristian
Fiona Cristian
Jasmin Lily Cristian
Emma Rose Cristian
Frances Hannah Cristian
Xanthe Jane Cristian

15th December 2006 (Edited/Updated 18th September 2011)

The Cristian Family November 2006

Update Regarding The Love For Life
Home Page And Quick User Guide

We are turning the Love for Life Quick User Guide http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6608 into a blog of all the main insights of our work since March 2005, whether through articles, videos, podcasts or discussions/debates.

As we do not have the time to compile everything we have written into a book, as many have suggested we do, compiling all our most important work into one area of the website is a way of providing easy access to this work so those interested are able to fully comprehend the big picture.

Instead of having to find our different articles, videos, etc, in various parts of the website, it will all be accessible here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6608 and here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3385.

Love For Life Videos

As amateurs and posted in the Quick User Guide below the Facebook links, we're currently creating and posting a series of videos called "The Dream Of Life" which covers the ground of all the Love For Life insights. We plan to have the videos completed by December 31st 2012. Once this is behind us, our intention is to create a 2 hour or so video covering the body of this work. All videos are embedded in the quick user guide http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6608 and uploaded in Arthur's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ArthurLoveForLife.

Love For Life Music

We have started recording songs, with others, that express the themes of Love For Life. They are now being posted on Arthur's YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ArthurLoveForLife and are embedded in the quick user guide http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6608. We have over 100 songs to record. A few rough demos have already been used as the soundtrack on the first "Dream of Life" video.

About Us - Love For Life & The Cristian Family

Also, everything we, the Cristian family, have gone through, from bank fraud and the theft of the family home to death threats and attempts on Arthur's life, is documented in the Quick User Guide too. If you, the reader, are prepared to put the effort in, you will comprehend the extent to which we have all been tricked into becoming slaves, giving up our uniqueness and our full-responsibility for life and destroying everything of life to the point where life is in danger of dying out completely. You will also comprehend the remedy to all this chaos; a remedy that requires only love for life and the determination to do what needs to be done. Though our focus is very strongly on the remedy that creates a world of freedom, truth, peace, joy, abundance and Do No Harm for all of life without loss of uniqueness or the need for slaves and rulers, we realise that it is vital to comprehend how to get there and what stops us from getting there. This is why there is so much information on the hows and whys of everything going wrong in the world today. We are not into peddling conspiracy theories, we are into routing out all forms of organised crime.

Saturday 26th November 2011

Arthur and Fiona Cristian
Love For Life

Website: http://loveforlife.com.au
Email: action@loveforlife.com.au
Mobile: 0011 61 418 203204 - (0418 203204)
Facebook Arthur Cristian: http://www.facebook.com/arthurcristian
YouTube Arthur Cristian: http://www.youtube.com/ArthurLoveForLife
SoundCloud: http://soundcloud.com/loveforlife
Nimbit Music: http://www.nimbitmusic.com/loveforlife
Twitter: https://twitter.com/loveforlifemusi
Facebook Music: http://www.facebook.com/loveforlifemusic
Facebook Why Aren't We Free Discussion: http://www.facebook.com/164918753537287
Facebook Do No Harm Community: http://www.facebook.com/151811728195925
YouTube Love For Life Music: http://www.myspace.com/loveforlifemusic
MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/loveforlifemusic
Google + Fiona Cristian: https://plus.google.com/100490175160871610090
Register To The Love For Life Mailing List: http://loveforlife.com.au/content/09/05/14/mailing-list

1. For The Body Of The Love For Life Work by Arthur and Fiona Cristian

Which Unravels The Reasons For The Chaos, Mayhem and Confusion Being Experienced In The World Today, Explains The Need For "Community Immunity" and Responsibility, and Focuses On The Creation Of Kindoms - Do No Harm, Life-Sustainable Communities (As The Remedy That Heals All Mans Woes) - And How We Can Co-Create Them. For Comments, Articles And Discussions, Go Here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3385 - Also Go Here To See Podcasts And Videos Posted by Arthur & Fiona Cristian: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/7309 - The Information Shared Comes From Inspiration, Intuition, Heartfelt-Logic And Information Gathered From Nature And Many Amazing Men And Women Along The Way. It Is Not Found In Any Books Or Channellings, Or Talked About By "Experts". Go Here To Read A Brief Synopsis Of Why We Started Love For Life: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/8182

2. For Information About The Ringing Cedars of Russia Series

go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/1125 and for more on Eco Homes, Villages, Organic and Permaculture Gardening and Life-Sustainability, etc, go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3641 and here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/1985 and Mikhail Petrovich Shchetinin - Kin's School - Lycee School at Tekos: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/5173

3. For How To Eat A Raw, Living Food Diet,

go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/5068 - LIFE is information. When we distort LIFE and then eat, drink, absorb, think, feel, hear, see, touch, taste, smell and perform these distortions, the information of LIFE, your LIFE, our LIFE, our children's lives, everyone's LIFE, is distorted.

4. To Find A Menu For The Extensive Research Library (over 8,000 items posted embodying over 11,000 documents, pdf's, videos, podcasts, etc)

Which Covers Topics From Health to Chemtrails/Haarp to Brain Control to Archaeology to Astronomy Geocentricity Heliocentricity to Pandemics Bird Flu Swine Flu to Fluoride to Cancer to Free Energy to Global Warming, 9/11, Bali Bombings, Aspartame, MSG, Vaccinations, Aids/HIV, Mercury, New World Order, Satanism, Religions, Cults, Sects, Symbolism, etc, etc, go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/82

5. If You Would Like To Read About The Cristian Family NSW Supreme Court Case

(Macquarie Bank/Perpetual Limited Bank Fraud Condoned By Judges, Registrars, Barristers, Lawyers, Politicians, Public Servants, Bureaucrats, Big Business and Media Representatives - A Crime Syndicate/Terrorist Organisation) Which Prompted The Creation Of This Love For Life Website December 2006, And The Shooting And Torture Of Supporters Who Assisted Us In Reclaiming The Family Home, Joe Bryant And His Wife, Both In Their Late 70's, go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/5 And Read Some Of Our Email Correspondence With Lawyer Paul Kean - Macedone Christie Willis Solari Partners - Miranda Sydney May 17th-June 27th 2006: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/7300

6. For The Stories Of Other Victims Of The System,

go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/australian_stories (If you have a story you would like us to put up, we would love to here from you:
action @ loveforlife.com.au)

7. For Documentation Of Harm Done By The Powers-That-Be And Their Representatives,

Evidence Revealing How Victims Did Not Break The Peace, Caused No Crime or Harm, There Were No Injured Parties. Documenting Incontrovertible Evidence Demonstrating How The Powers That Be (PTB) And Their Lackeys Will Break All The Laws They Are Supposed To Uphold. They Will Kidnap, Intimidate, Terrorise, Rape, Pillage, Plunder And Lie And Take Responsibility For None Of It. All Part Of Their Tactics Of Using Fear And Trauma To Keep Us In Our Place. Relatives Of Those Under Their Radar Are Also Not Safe From Attack And Intimidation. All Starting From A $25 Fine For Not Voting And A $65 Fine For Not Changing A Dog Registration. We Do Not Have Freedom And Can Only Appear To Have Freedom If We Comply. Regardless How Small The Matter The PTB Throw Hundreds Of Thousands Of Dollars Away To Enforce Their Will.... Go Here:
Fiona Cristian Reply To State Debt Recovery Office - Part One to Part Ten - From 17th October 2008 And Still Continuing:
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6319 or
Fiona Cristian Reply To State Debt Recovery Office
Part One: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/5742 - From 17th October 2008
Part Two: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6135 - From 18th December 2008
Part Three: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6295 - From 9th January 2009
Part Four: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6296 - From 14th January 2009
Part Five: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6375 - The Sick Puppy - From 20th February 2009
Part Six: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6390 - Police Officers, Sheriff’s Officers, Tow Truck Driver and State Debt Recovery Office Blatantly Ignore the Law To Rape, Pillage and Plunder The Private Property Of Fiona Cristian - From 11th March 2009
Part Seven: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6445 - Affidavit Of Truth - Letter To The Queen + Australia: Fascism is Corporatism - From 30th March 2009
Part Eight: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6652 - The Pirates Auction And The Ghost Of VSL386 - From 4th April 2009
Part Nine: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/7073 - Arthur Cristian's Letter To Pru Goward MP - From 15th December 2009
Part Ten: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/7500 - Should We Be In Fear Of Those Who Claim To Protect Us? "Roman Cult" Canon Law - Ecclesiastical Deed Poll - The Work Of Frank O'Collins - From 13th October 2010

8. If You Are Interested In Information On Freedom From Statutes, Rule-Of-Law, Free Man/Free Woman, Strawman, "Person" and Admiralty Law (The Law Of Commerce),

go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/895 - For Common Law, Democracy, Constitution, Trial By Jury, Fee Simple, etc, go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/category/main/law-articles-documents

9. If You Are Interested In Banking and Money Created (Fiat/Credit/Debt/Mortgage/Loan/Overdraft etc) Out-Of-Thin-Air, How Banks Counterfeit Money,

go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/banks

10. For A List Of All The Latest Posts In The Love For Life Website,

go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/tracker

11. For Links To Many Hundreds Of Videos, DVDs And Podcasts

go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/video_dvd

12. To See The Cristian Family Pledge, Legal and other Disclaimers

go here: http://loveforlife.com.au/content/06/12/05/love-life-legal-disclaimer

13. To Read About How A Representative Of The NSW Jewish Board Of Deputies Had Threatened To Shut Down The Love For Life Website

go here: Part One: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6616 Part Two: THE STEVE JOHNSON REPORT AND VIDEO: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6665 and Part Three: Latest Update On James Von Brunn: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6673

Conscious Love Always
Arthur & Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
action @ loveforlife.com.au
www.loveforlife.com.au
0418 203204 (int: 0011 61 418 203204)
PO Box 1320 Bowral 2576 NSW Australia

Arthur Cristian

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The Cristian Family November 2006

Love For Life Legal Disclaimer

The information contained on this world wide web site (the web site and all information herein shall be collectively referred to as "Web Site Information"), under the registered url name, loveforlife.com.au, resides on a host server environment in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15203, United States of America.

The Web Site Information has been prepared to provide general information only and is not intended to constitute or be construed as providing substantive professional advice or opinion on any facts or circumstances. Transmission of the information is not intended to create, nor does its receipt give rise to, a professional-client relationship between 'Love for Life' and the receiver.

While every care has been taken to ensure the accuracy and timeliness of the information prepared and/or reported on this site, 'Love for Life' is not responsible for any errors or omissions or for the Web Site Information not being up to date. The Web Site Information may not reflect the most current developments.

The impact of the law, policy and/or procedure for any particular situation depends on a variety of factors; therefore, readers should not act upon any Web Site Information without seeking professional advice. 'Love for Life' is not responsible for any action taken in reliance on any Web Site Information herein.

'Love for Life' is not responsible for any action you or others take which relies on information in this website and/or responses thereto. 'Love for Life' disclaim all responsibility and liability for loss or damage suffered by any person relying, directly or indirectly, on the Web Site Information, including in relation to negligence or any other default.

'Love for Life' does not warrant, represent or hold out that any Web Site Information will not cause damage, or is free from any computer virus, defect(s) or error(s). 'Love for Life' is not liable to users for any loss or damage however caused resulting from the use of material found on its web site.

'Love for Life' does not necessarily endorse or approve of any Web Site Information linked to and contained on other web sites linked herein and makes no warranties or representations regarding the merchantability or fitness for purpose, accuracy and quality, of any such information.

The sending of information by you, and the receipt of it by 'Love for Life', is not intended to, and does not, create a professional-client relationship.

All Web Site Information is considered correct at the time of the web site's most recent revision.

The Cristian Family November 2006

ADDITIONAL DISCLAIMER

Note: Updated Wednesday 17th June 2009 8.00pm Sydney Time.

Love For Life does not support harm doing in any shape or form. However, we are supporters of free speech and post articles, documentaries, etc, that represent a wide cross section of ideas. See the Love For Life extensive research library where over 11,000 individual documents, articles, videos, podcasts and debates/discussions are posted: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/82. We clearly see the evidence of the destruction to MAN and Earth that has been caused by ALL religions over the centuries and are therefore not supporters of religions, cults, sects or any group that demands conformity of thought, speech or action, or has rules, regulations or rituals that must be followed. Religions, nationalities and cultural "identities" are formed as a result of the brainwashing we receive from childhood. They are part of the tactics the Establishment uses to keep us all divided from one another and fighting one another.

All religions promote discrimination and division, leading to hatred and even violence and murder. None of them have yet to produce a remedy to all the suffering, poverty, unhappiness and discrimination in the world. If any religion truly had the remedy to all the suffering on earth, there would no longer be any suffering. What have Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, atheism and the New Age done to end the suffering in the world?

The Love For Life website has information from all sides on many subjects, whether about Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Law, health, psychology, mind control, vaccination, aspartame, MSG, Chemtrails etc. There are over 11,000 individual articles, documentaries, etc on the website and they are so diverse that we are sure that everyone would be able to find something they loved and something they hated, if they took the time to search. If we removed all the articles hated by everyone, there would probably be nothing left! We are not anti anyone but freedom of speech is freedom of speech and no one should condemn the work of another without taking the time to research the subject themselves. Yes, there are articles by those who have a less-than-rosy-viewpoint of Judaism, but there are also articles on the dark side of Tibetan Buddhism (and it is very dark) for those who are interested in the truth: Tibet - Buddhism - Dalai Lama: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6271 Should the authors of these articles be abused and imprisoned for daring to challenge the widely conceived reputation of Buddhism as being the religion of peace and love and that of the Dalai Lama as a saint, or should those interested be allowed to study the work and come to their own conclusions? The same applies to all the articles, documentaries, etc, about Christianity, Islam, Freemasonry, New World Order, etc.

The Love for Life website also shows how the Rule of Law, the Bar, the Government, the Monarchy, the system of commerce, the local, national and multi/trans-national private corporations, all the courses and careers on offer from our universities, all the educators, scientists, academics and experts, the aristocrats and the Establishment bloodlines have also done NOTHING to end the suffering in the world. The website maps the insanity of a world where there is no help for those in need, just as there was no help available for us when we were victims of terrible bank fraud: http://loveforlife.com.au/court_case orchestrated, condoned and protected by an international crime syndicate/terrorist organisation of judges, barristers, registrars, lawyers, politicians, banksters, big business representatives, media moguls and other lackeys who, all together, put up a wall of silence despite our trying many, many avenues. After the family home was stolen and business destroyed we were left close to poverty and destitution caring for 4 young daughters. Three years later not much has changed regardless of all our efforts. Where were all the followers of all the religions to help us? Or do we have to be members of those religions to receive help from others involved in them?

We have been accused of being anti - Jewish because we had posted an excerpt from James von Brun's book: Kill the Best Gentiles! http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6054 in which he blames Jews for the problems of the world. Obviously this is not our view because of what we have stated above. We do not hate anyone, whatever religion they follow. We are always open to talk to any religious leader or politician and meet with any judge, member of the Bar, experts, academics, educators etc to share the remedy we offer that heals all the divisions between MAN and MAN, and MAN and EARTH.

Today, a representative of the New South Wales Jewish Board of Deputies is threatening to close the website down, because they have decided it is anti - Jewish and that we promote racism. What has the New South Wales Jewish Board of Deputies done to end the suffering in the world? Can they show that they are concerned with the suffering of ALL men, women and children AND ARE SEEN TO BE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT or are they only concerned with Jewish affairs? If so, they, along with all the other religions that only care for their own, are part of the problem, not part of the solution. The man who rang Arthur today was only concerned with Jewish affairs; he was not interested in our intentions or in anybody else, just as most Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Catholics, etc, are only interested in their own. While we separate our lives into groups, dividing our lives from others with rules, regulations, rituals, procedures, conditions and contracts, we will never solve our problems.

No matter what we in the Western World Civilisation of Commerce have been promised by our politicians, religious leaders, scientists, educators, philosophers, etc, for the past two hundred years, all we have seen is ever-increasing destruction of men, women and children and Earth. None of the so-called experts and leaders we have been taught to rely on are coming up with a solution and none of them are taking full-responsibility for the fact that they can't handle the problem. All religious books talk about end times full of destruction and suffering but why do we have to follow this program when there is an alternative to hatred, mayhem and death? Why are our leaders following the program of destruction and death rather than exploring the do no harm alternatives? It seems that any mainstream politician, priest or academic are only interested in supporting the RULES OF THE DIVIDE, that maintain the haves and the have nots. For 200+ years, 99% of the world population have been so trained to pass on their responsibility for their lives, others and Earth, that the 1% of the population that make up the leaders of the rest of us are making all the decisions leading to the destruction of all of us and Earth. Let's not forget the education system that brainwashes the 99% of the population that we are free and have equal rights while, in fact, we are feathering the nests of those at the top.

At the root of all our problems is self-centredness, an unwillingness nurtured by the Establishment that keeps us concerned only with our own needs rather than the needs of others around us and Earth. Instead of creating and releasing acts of love for those around us as gifts to benefit them and Earth, we take, take and take, until there is nothing left. The whole point of the Love for Life website is to show people the root of all our problems and to share the remedy. The extensive research library is there to attract browsers and to provide access to information not available through mainstream channels. If the New South Wales Jewish Board of Deputies can, after careful examination of our work, prove that anything we are saying is wrong, we will be happy to accept their proof. If they cannot, and they are still insistent on closing the website down, they will be showing themselves to be traitors to MAN because they are not interested in pursuing any avenue that can end the suffering in the world.

All religions, corporations and organisations that support and maintain the Western World Civilisation of Commerce are part of the problem because our civilisation is a world of haves and have nots, exclusivity, privilege, racism, violence, hatred, poverty, sickness, discrimination, abuse, starvation, homelessness, corruption, collusion, vindictiveness, social unrest, arrogance, ignorance, fear, war and chaos. While we support civilisation, we support death and destruction.

If we truly want peace and freedom for all, we have to let go of all that which keeps us divided, and come together as MAN, conscious living co-creators of creation/life. The Love For Life website offers a remedy to the problems we all face in the form of DO NO HARM COMMUNITIES (KINDOMS): http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6608 - http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3641 For more details see here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/6511 and here: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/3385 - We also highly recommend that everyone read the brilliant Russian books called The Ringing Cedars: http://loveforlife.com.au/node/1125 - The Love For Life homepage/front-page also provides lots of inspiring remedy based information: http://loveforlife.com.au - If you want to be kept up to date with our work please register to the Love For Life mailing list here: http://loveforlife.com.au/campaign_list We usually send two postings per month. Presently (September 2011) there are over 7000 registrations reaching over 500,000 readers across Earth. The website now (September 2011) receives up to 12 million hits per month. Since December 2006, over 100 million people have visited the Love For Life website.

Conscious Love Always
Arthur and Fiona Cristian
Love For Life
17th June 2009